The Breitling Watch Source Forums

I'm sure there's info out there on this subject, but I haven't been able to find it with a few moderate searches.

Is it better for the long-term longevity of a watch, to use a winder or go without? Take my new Chronomat. It's going to be my secondary watch for special and social events, not my primary. Given that, I envision that it will regularly be sitting for about 2 weeks at a time without being worn, give or take a bit.

Let's take the "convenience" factor out of it, and assume that I don't have a problem setting the watch every time I wear it, if it's stopped. (I don't envision myself minding, if it's not going to be every day) So for me, the question of whether to use a winder seems to be whether it would be better for the watch long-term. In the research that I've done, I've found there seems to be an argument on this. One camp argues that the watch needs to be regularly lubed, and it's better to keep the gears perpetually turning. The other camp argues that running the gears if the watch is not being worn only results in needless wear, and that wear from watch-winders is actually more than if it were worn on the wrist all the time.

I'd really like to hear from the experts here whether I would be better off going with a winder or not. (again, given the factors of the new 2009 model Chronomat, that I don't mind setting the watch before each use which eliminates the convenience factor, and that it will be 2+ weeks inbetween wearings at times that the watch will be idle)

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Chris
Club Member #0070
2009 TT Chrono Evo w/Rose gold, blue face
2009 Airwolf w/black face, Co-Pilot module
2009 TT Lady Cockpit w/Mother-of-Pearl, Diamond face for the wife

Well, you've actually answered your own question in the thread! There are indeed two schools of thought surrounding this - namely that some say that constantly running a watch will wear parts faster than if it's stopped, whereas others will say that a watch that is stopped for a long time will suffer more when it is eventually started due to the oils pooling or drying up. As far as I'm aware there is no definitive info on this, and I'm not aware of anyone having done a specific study.

There is also the car analogy here. A car that is often used on long runs will generally be running better than one that has been sitting in a shed for a year. And generally a car used more often on a long run will be better than one that is used in fits and starts around town. However, certain parts will certainly wear faster as a result of constant use. But then, that's what servicing is for.

My personal take on this is that a watch is designed and meant to be run. The service intervals of 3 - 5 years are designed around a watch being used, so provided you stick to that there should be no issues with having a watch running constantly. Hence I'm happy to use a winder, although I do like to let the watch run down quite a lot (but generally not to stopping) as it allows the mainspring to unwind, so reducing the constant tension on it.

If you decide to leave a watch out of a winder then make sure you run it up once a month or so, including using the chronograph as that is often overlooked. This should keep it running just fine.

It's swings and roundabouts really.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

Well, I have half a mechanical engineering degree, and mechanical watch parts are subject to wear in proportion to the amount of time they are in motion. Of course, some parts deteriorate more than others, but as a starting point, it would seem silly to have a watch on a winder all the time if you only wear it one day out of 14.

If the watch is left idle, the oils tend to settle and gum up over time, so that it is important to “exercise” a movement regularly – maybe 24 hours each fortnight? However, the more a movement is used, the more tiny fragments of metal separate from the movement and will combine with the oils such that the gumming up process becomes worse. This is why it’s OK for new pieces to sit for a while in dealer’s showrooms – but also why used watches which have been sitting idle usually need a service.

And that leads to the final point – it depends how often you are happy to service your Chronomat. If you have it on a winder, it will most likely need a service in 5-7 years. Bearing in mind that gaskets dry out regardless of use, if water resistance isn’t a concern, if you just wear it one day out of 14 – the caseback mightn’t need to be opened for 12-15 years, in which case you will save at least a grand over that time period.

Well, I'm a watchmaker and I have a different viewpoint. First, the pivots on the ends of the wheel arbors are hardened and polished. If they are clean and properly lubricated, they will run for many years without damage. Typically, they are polished with a burnisher during service. The process does not remove any metal from the pivot, it just puts a more polished surface on it.

The enemies of the watch are dust and moisture. Proper sealing of the case will keep moisture and dust out of the movement. Case backs should not be arbitrarily removed if you want to keep your watch in good condition. Dust will collect in the oil and can eventually cause wear. Oxidation from moisture can really cause more problems than I have time to discuss.

Over time, a watch left in one position will let the oil pool slightly as a result of gravity. Does it hurt anything? Probably not. Does it help the watch keep good time? Absolutely not. The watch is timed when the oil is evenly distributed on all lubricated surfaces. Letting it sit will eventually impact the accuracy. The pallet stones that interface with the teeth of the escape wheel are lubricated with a very light oil. This oil gets distributed to the escape wheel teeth. Running the watch maintains the even distribution of the oil. Obviously, letting it sit does not.

Attempting to prolong service intervals by letting the watch sit is not a good idea. The service intervals are based on the expected life span of the different oils used in the watch, not wear. The wear occurs when the oils are so old they no longer provide proper lubrication. Read the owners manual of you car. Somewhere in there it will tell you to change the engine oil after so many miles or months of operation. Only driving a car 100 miles a year doesn't mean you can go ten years without an oil change!

I keep my old Cosmo on a winder. I usually wear it when I am flying my plane, so it is worn on no particular schedule. The rest of the time, it gets some motion from the winder.

Whether you ues a winder or not, get it serviced when it is due.

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1809 Cosmonaute
1903 Navi
Navi Olympus
Super Avenger

Thanks, fellas, I appreciate the input, and would like to hear more from you experts. (Roff, too!)

I very much subscribe to the thought that "if you take care of your things, they'll take care of you." So I have no problem doing service work on the watch however often it's needed, and periodically running it. I appreciate the input on running the chronograph--I wouldn't have thought of that.

But in the end, the question that it comes down to, for me, is whether it's better for the long-term longevity of the watch to keep it on a winder, or let it run down and a couple times every week or two get it running and wear it for a day. Which one would be better for the long-term care of the watch? Doesn't seem to be a consensus!

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Chris
Club Member #0070
2009 TT Chrono Evo w/Rose gold, blue face
2009 Airwolf w/black face, Co-Pilot module
2009 TT Lady Cockpit w/Mother-of-Pearl, Diamond face for the wife

If your only concern is the long term care of the watch, get it serviced at the recommended interval. In my opinion, if you want to keep it in peak operating condition put it on a winder.

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1809 Cosmonaute
1903 Navi
Navi Olympus
Super Avenger

Well as you asked........

I'm with onewatchnut on servicing. Modern watches can likely run without oil if we are completely honest, though I'm not advocating it. The biggest problems in accuracy, and in damage through wear, is either dirt or broken down oil - both of which are simple service issues.

Oils certainly can breakdown with lack of use and I always make sure that every watch I own (that runs) is run for a full wind of the mainspring at least once a month - with the chrono running if it has one.

That and regular service intervals is enough, but there's nothing wrong with using a winder, but to Driver8's point I wouldn't use one that doesn't include cycles for the watch to sit idle and let the mainspring partially wind down.

Wow, I was going to ask this exact same question...

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"I don't got the bright watch I got the right watch" -Jay Z

Okay... so what I'm hearing out of all this is that the watch will be fine either way, whether you use a winder or not. But to the basic question--is it going to be "better" for the watch to leave it on a winder, or not? Would one way or the other maintain accuracy better? Or is it really 6 of one, half a dozen of another, and putting it on a winder really wouldn't matter beyond just the convenience of having it constantly ready on the time, as long as it is periodically run every couple weeks?

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Chris
Club Member #0070
2009 TT Chrono Evo w/Rose gold, blue face
2009 Airwolf w/black face, Co-Pilot module
2009 TT Lady Cockpit w/Mother-of-Pearl, Diamond face for the wife

Great discussion!

My view on this has always been influenced by the story about my mate’s Grandad’s Rolex which he wore maybe once a week and hadn’t serviced ever – like 20+ years. It still kept great time!

But there are other stories about mechanical watches being worn constantly over many years without servicing and still functioning well.

I totally agree with Driver 8 that watches are meant to run – but I do cringe at the thought of collectors with 10+ pieces always on winders. That just seems wasteful somehow.



Onewatchnut, I certainly respect your opinion as a watchmaker – I may have overestimated the metal-metal wear factor. And I agree the real point is that mechanical watches require servicing – but surely there is a balance here such that regular periodic activity will result in longer movement life compared to constant activity?

@Wildblue - If I had to choose between them then I would go for a winder simply because it's easier not having to set the watch when you do wear it (and have the risk of accidentally using the quick set date or winding time back in the 'danger' zone). However........

The third option is to manually wind once a day if practical. That will give the mainspring a chance to wind down and prevent you from having to set the watch to wear it. Theoretically it will put strain on the crown, crown step, crown gear, etc and on the screw down mechanism, but again six of one and half a dozen of the other.



@Carlos - The real issue is not that oils 'wear out' its' that they age - regardless of whether the watch is in motion or not. An aged oil will be thicker and not only less capable of doing it's job it will have the potential to cause problems itself. I just bought a watch from a member that has been sitting in a drawer for 40 years. He said that it still ran but my first request was that he not wind it any more because I don't want to run the risk of expensive damage. For every 'x year old watch that's never been serviced there are a lot of expensive failures - just look at the wholesale watch lots on eBay.

As I am learning as I get into watchmaking, and as I am sure onewatchnut will confirm there are no shortage of non running watches out there for budding watchmakers to practice on.

So how often should the chronograph be used? And is it a good idea to let it run through its full cycle (12 hours on mine) so all of the components get a full rotation?

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Follow me through my Journalism degree

I run all of my chronos for at least 24 hours a month, and as I said, on the watches that aren't running all the time I make sure that they get at least one cycle a month from a fully wound mainspring with the chrono running. Most of them are older so that's not going to be 42 hours, but will be at least 24.

Brilliant. As I wear mine every day, will it cause unecessary wear to have the chronograph running all the time? (only becaues I like watching it go round). I imagine it'll cause no more wear than the regular ticking of the watch, provided I have it serviced when I should.

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Follow me through my Journalism degree

Marginally more wear, but nothing tangible, and slightly reduced power reserve, but again won't be noticeable if the watch is worn all the time.