The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Over the last 9 months or so I've started to become much more interested in watches that contain in-house movements, so much so that the 4 watches on my "hit list" are all in-house. Basically I have become exclusively in-house in terms of watches that I want to own. Personally I really like the idea that a particular movement is only found in watches that contain the makers names on the dial (or at least in very few watches if they happen to supply other watch-makers, as in the case of Zenith who used to supply Rolex, and still supply Tag with the 36,000 movement in their Calibre 36). Other than that I find it extremely hard to explain exactly what it is that I find so appealing about in-house movements. The way things currently stand, I don't think I'm going to buy another ETA/Valjoux equiped watch - in fact, whenever I see a new watch a like, I'm immediately scouring the net to find out what's inside it.

So recently I've found myself taking a bit more of a liking to the Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore models than I ever have before. I used to actually hate them, but slowly and surely I've been coming round to them. I've got the catalogue (which while being a nice hardback book, manages to tell you the square root of nothing about the watches technically ), but I was still none the wiser what was "under the hood". It turns out that the current AP ROO movement is a modular construction of a Dubois Depraz chronograph module on top of a base movement that is essentially the Jaeger LeCoultre 889/2. I know that AP had (and maybe still have?) a share in JLC, but even so I found it quite surprising given AP are often talked about in hushed tones as being up there with the likes of Patek and Lange, when their most instantly recognisable watch carries a movement that is not of their origin. I then found quite an interesting article written by an AP ROO owner (and general all round fan of AP), and he himself described it as "a Ferrari with a 4 cylinder engine", and then went on to describe how AP ROO owners don't really buy them for the movement.

And this basically led me to wonder what the rest of you guys think about in-house movements. Does it matter to you? Or are indifferent about it? Do you buy a watch a watch for the movement, the looks, the image, a combination of all of these things? How important is the movement to you? Is anyone else changing their opinion as a result of the B01 movement?

Now obviously I realise this is a Breitling forum and unless someone here has snared a Chronomat B01 in the last couple of days, no Breitling owner here currently has an in-house movement in their watch - me included - but the question still stands.

Disclaimer - Yes I know that "in-house" can mean many things to many different people, and yes I know that many parts (such as mainspring and jewel production) are usually outsourced even in in-house movements, but in essence I am talking about movements designed and built predominantly by the watchmaking company.

_________________
Driver8

Site Moderator

As my knowledge of technical elements of watchmaking has grown my appreciation fo in house movements has grown - after all, besides the movement is really just an exercise in design aesthetics (and yes some functionality to protect the movement).

I wouldn't rule out watches that don't have in house movements, but I am certainly looking at watches that are more 'unique' and the absence of an in house movement certainly detracts from that uniqueness. I am also starting to look a little more upmarket, and it becomes harder to justify spending $X thousand on something that has the same engine as a sub $1,000 watch.

There are some brands that are appealing to me now that have modified ETAs, but the pricing has to be good for me to consider it, and my major purchases will definitely be in house.

Love the in-house, but can't afford them.

I appreciate both in house and garden variety movements, as I have noticed that a lot of work goes into the case design and execution as well. Many watches out there have very bland cases and dials, and all they have going for them is the movement. Conversely, it is like a Ferrari Engine in a Pinto.

Like Roff, however, I do prefer a more unique watch, the further up the food chain I go. If I'm paying more money, I would like an in-house movement. The thing is, some of the most beautiful case, dials and designs on watches come from companies that use a lot of ETA movements, such as Breitling, IMO. However, it's still not a deal breaker for me. I find many in-house movement watches have case and dials that are very uninspired.

_________________
BreitlingSource Admin
http://www.breitlingsource.com - http://blog.breitlingsource.com

I've definitely changed my opinion as a result of the B01. It seems like a classic already! I'm really looking forward to seeing it person and in other models - how it will be modified etc.

The big plus for me is that, by going in-house, it has given Breitling more control over functions (70 hr power reserve!), looks and dial layout etc. (I really like the Chronomat B01s dial layout compared to the standard Chronomat).

It just seems right that a watch brand designs and produces the engine in their watches! Each brand adds it's own genetics to it and this provides a bit of competition amongst brands etc. No bad thing!

Now, the pricing? Hmmm ...

I tend to agree with you D8, just not as fervently perhaps. My next watch is going to be the Zenith Open Defy Classic (+/- Grande Date complication -- not sure I want an all gold watch, just not that delicate with them) with the El Primero movement. While not THE reason I decided on it, it was certainly a big contribution. Like The Professor said, it adds to the uniqueness of a piece. That said, I still really like the Bentley 6.75, and will likely get one this year also. Now if they put the B02 in it, well then, I will race you to Govberg!!!!!!!


PS: I realize there is no such thing as the B02, so all the nit-pickers settle down!

_________________
Chronomat, Steel/Gold, MOP Dial, 2-tone band (2008)
Super Avenger Black Baton Dial (2009)
Bentley B04 GMT Silver Dial (2013)
Avenger Blacksteel Baton Dial (2014)

Does a Seiko 5 count as an in house movement?

If not, I can't see myself owning one soon

_________________

For more information on identifying Breitling replicas, please visit my web site
http://f4buz.com/watches/breitling/fakes/fakes.html

I can't say I gave in-house movements a lot of thought before joining the site but I can now say it would factor in future decisions. I'm not saying I'll only purchase watches with in-house movements in future but it's one factor of many I'll consider. I look for a combination of factors when looking at a watch. The look or presentation, which is very important, durability, quality, craftsmanship, price, exclusivity (in the sense of not owned by everyone) - the lot really - which is what lead me to Breitling, a decision I'm still very very happy with and will no doubt be for the rest of my life.

A question then D8 and others who have responded in this thread, is there any such thing as the perfect watch in your mind? You talk of Grail watches, individual pieces that no doubt mean a lot more than others...are they 'perfect' in your mind or do they currently contain a number of elements that contribute to being grail in your eyes? The reason I ask is in my experience when you think you've found something that's 'perfect' there is always something that could be considered better, in innumerable ways, once your expression changes or it contains something else to appreciate. Obviously a watch is a very personal expererience, do you think your grail watches will change in future if another grail catches your eye? It's obviously a moving industry watchmaking particuarly as technology is continually advancing which will no doubt have an impact as well.

Hope you're close to those grail purchases D8! Great thread

_________________
Happines is Good Health and a Bad Memory.
"Ingrid Bergman"

Perfect watches - heaven forbid, everything after that would be a let down

I have a number of watches that I would love to own and know I never will - tourbillon minute repeaters would be a good example.

I also have some pieces that I am hoping that I may be able to consider at some point, but likely only be able to buy one from my list.

Then there are the ones that I can consider as part of the budget in the next few years (economy allowing). My list keeps changing, which is half the fun of course, but I don't think any of them are perfect - but that's just me!

Hmmmm, the "Perfect Watch"! That's a VERY difficult one Tim! To me a near-perfect watch is a combination of in-house movement, a case around 45 to 46mm, and of a design that just appeals to me in some way. Personally I don't think there is such a thing as a 100% perfect watch for me, although my "grail watches" are about as close as I think I'm going to come so in that respect I am (and will be if I ever get all of them!) more than happy with them. Incidentally I try to keep my grail watches vaguely grounded in realism. Of course there are some hideously expensive (i.e. 6 figure) marvels out there, but I don't consider them as EVER attainable this side of a lottery win, so I don't tend to give them a moments thought. BUT I'm pretty sure none of those would be 100% perfect either! So, my grails are as follows -

For example -

IWC Big Pilot - I absolutely LOVE IT, but if I was being ULTRA critical (and I mean ULTRA critical here) I'd quite like it to have a 4Hz movement instead of the 3Hz as it would make the second hand just fractionally smoother. It's not remotely an issue, but if we're talking about total 100% perfection, then that would be it. But aside from making the second hand very slightly smoother, I actually love the 21,600 movement.

JLC Master Compressor Extreme World Chronograph - Again, I absolutely love it, but if I was being ultra critical, then I'd rather the date wheel was black instead of white.

Zenith Defy Classic Open - Only criticism is the lack of a date..... which is a shame considering that the solid gold Defy Classic Open Multicity Grand Date DOES have the date complication.

Panerai 270 - In an ideal world it would be 1mm, maybe 2mm, larger and have fractionally larger numerals on the dial like the 233. (The 233 is counted out because it's not got the 10 day auto movement).

Blancpain Fifty Fathoms - Lack of a deployant clasp, and the dial markings could do with being fractionally larger.

The thing to bear in mind here is that all of these things are incredibly minor and in no way would any of it prevent me from owning them. All of these are total grail watches for me and I could never seeing myself selling any of them...... assuming of course that one day I can add the other 4 to my collection to join my Big Pilot!

So as you can see, there isn't quite the perfect watch in existance for me......., but these 5 come damn close! And "damn close" is more than enough in my book!

_________________
Driver8

Site Moderator

the watch having a in-house movement has never been a factor in my decision making. However if I was to purchase one for the "fact of it having a in-house movement" it would first have to be reasonably priced (considering) and second they would have to be 100% responsible for the entire movement. Which is why at some point in time I would love to own a Grand Seiko. I love them for their simple design and the fact that their not as recognized.

_________________
Jerome

Ya I love this Grand Seiko. Wish I could find one!

_________________


Collection:

Breitling Ti Emergency Blue Dial
Citizen Sky Hawk Blue Angels Ti

Upcoming: Breitling B1/B2/Airwolf

I tend to agree with Driver. There's just something about in-house movements that beckons me. Call it the "it" factor, if you like. I certainly have no plans to sell my Breitlings or my Omega, but my next watch (probably another IWC) will surely have an in-house ticker. The Ferrari metaphor says it all: a four cylinder just doesn't do it. Snobbery? That's certainly part of it, I admit. But if you're going to spend big bucks for a watch, the least you can expecty is a world-class movement. My two cents worth.

Steve
__________

Breitling Skyland, Steelfish; IWC Ingenieur; Omega Planet Ocean

I have thought alot about this, and go back and forth. I think I have determined that I do want at least some amount of customization in the movement for future watch purchases. For example, the Breitling 25B movement in the Bentley Motors is (at least I think) a Breitling-specific mod to the chronograph complication (30 second chrono). Yeah, it probably just took an extra gear or something, but it seems a fitting tribute to a company with such a history in chronograph development.

I have wanted an IWC pilot's chono, but I have not gotten one because I can't help feeling that if I buy an IWC I should save my $$$$ and get a model with an in-house movement. Having an ETA-based IWC just does not seem like it would have the same "magic." The problem is their in-house models are so [expletive deleted] expensive.

I absolutely love my Dornblueth, which is not only in-house, but hand manufactured. I feel it is a real privilege to wear something that somebody else created not really for money but for their love of the art of watchmaking.

Then the geek in me says that most of the chronometer quality ETA movements are actually more accurate, reliable, and robust than many (if not most) in-house movements. This is a simple engineering consequence...the more units you produce and the longer you produce them, the better the design and production process become. On the other hand, the B01 really looks like it is designed well and will be more robust than the 7750 (or at least it is harder to break).

Honestly, the other thing I really want for some of my future watch purchases is an exhibition caseback. I really would like to see the movement I am so fascinated with. The problem is, I really like the look of Breitlings. Grrrr......

Mofongo

_________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." --Dave Barry

Good thoughts everyone.

I'll be interested to run this thread again once the B01 (and future varients) become more commonplace throughout the range. I guess we'll see if "horological snobbery" (that I am also guilty of!) takes over!

_________________
Driver8

Site Moderator