The Breitling Watch Source Forums

OK guys, I apologise if this seems a bit negative, but in my defence it's been a long day and I didn't get to bed till gone 2am last night.

Anyway, while it's no secret that I'm disappointed with the new Chronomat model (and the lack of anything else of note) I was at least pleased with the fact that we finally got an in-house movement from Breitling. However, I've been thinking about this a bit more, and I must be honest, but I'm even a little bit disappointed with that too!

Sure it may have some cool features like the quick-date-change protection and zero-ing seconds like Panerai's Manifattura movements, but the more I think about it, the more I think that Breitling have missed a trick to make something really VISUALLY innovative. Let me explain......

I think I said in one of my posts a couple of months ago, that what I love about in-house movements is that it allows manufacturers to completely throw out the rule book and do something entirely new. For example, the IWC 51111 is quite unique in terms of the dial layout and 7 day power reserve : the Panerai P.2004 monopulsante is unique in it's chronograph function and it's 8 day power reserve : the movement in the AP Royal Oak Offshore with the small seconds at 12 : even the in-house movement in the Ebel Tekton with the way it displays the chronograph hours/minute counters,……… ALL of them offer something just a little bit different in terms of dial layout and function. Additionally those movements even look distinctive with their nice unique rotors (or bridges in the case of the Pannie).

I was really hoping that Breitling might've done something novel and interesting with the B01 design-wise, such as putting the small seconds at 6, or having the date wheel in a different place....... in fact anything really just to set it apart. However, the B01 seems to be awfully similar in looks to ETA/Valjoux stuff that's been around for ages. I mean, is it just me or does the B01 remind you guys of the Valjoux 7753 that's in the Navi under the guise of the B23???? Check them both out - small seconds at 9, a 30 minutes counter at 3, and a 12 hour counter at 6. Hmmmm.......

Heck, even a distinctive rotor would've helped............ although to be honest, the new one could be made of crushed diamonds and moon dust for all we know as we'll never see it due to the constant lack of display backs.

Anyway, I'll shut up now. I'm on a downer about it, but only because I was hoping for so much.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

i completely agree...

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Pain is only weakness leaving the body.

Well I'm obviously not thrilled with Basel, and my disappointments of the week may also be clouding my judgment, but I do agree that it's a very familiar layout.

I guess that I have to be fair and say that I can't complain about the lack of tradition in the chronomat design and then complain about tradition in the dial layout, although the tricompax isn't a chronomat staple.

We also have to acknowledge that while this is supposedly the result of 10 years of development there will doubtless be more in house movements in the coming months and years, and there may be innovations in the works there - the theory that you keep something back so that you can get attention again later (maybe that's the model theory as well).

We also don't know the degree of modularity to the movement, so it's possible that we will see more innovations coming.

Having said all that, this is the culmination of many years worth of work and when you put it alongside some of the other movements (even dare I say the CFB1000) it's a little ho hum. I am sure that it's a case of function over form, but in the 21st century those aren't mutually exclusive concepts.

Breitling is always going to remain faithful to the Geneva school of watchmaking with all that entails, but that doesn't imply boring - and many cotes de Geneve clad watches are proudly displayed behind sapphire crystal.

I said this after Basel last year, Breitling has been innovative from a technical standpoint for virtually all of their history, and I'm just not seeing that technical innovation anymore.

Like I had said in an earlier post....all that we have seen so far, is BETA;
a hurried up (half) effort, just to have something ready for the 125 year anniversary...
The best Breitling is capable of producing will be introduced in the coming years... IMO.
Whoever buys this year's new stuff will be getting it straight up (with NO LUBE), me thinks

I will definitely NOT be buying anything NEW from Breitling in the foreseeable future.....
Looking at some older models (an EMERGENCY; the same one Mario has ) or perhaps another TT Chronomat.....

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Rolex DeepSea, GMT Master II TT, Pres 18038, DJ TT 16013
Breitling Chronomat 39mm (bullet+UTC), Starliner SS/MOP (wife)

back with ROLEX

I was kind of thinking the same thing - me complaining about too much change in the case while bemoaning not enough change in the movement.

But then, that's actually EXACTLY how I feel : a great forward thinking innovative movement made entirely by Breitling in a case that carries on the classic Breitling DNA would have been ideal. Instead we have the reverse - a slightly ordinary movement, in a case design that while certainly not being hideous, definitely doesn't have the classic Breitling look about it.

Maybe we will see more innovation in future iterations of the B01 via it's modular construction, but as I said before, I so wanted to be wowed it and instead it's no more than a shoulder-shrug IMHO.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

why not add a minute repeater as well?

yes, the movement is conservative, but it is all new, has some minor, but polished complications, and is designed to be around long after we are gone. it will out live fads and continue the Breitling ethos for decades to come. "instruments for professionals"

i guess i just see it for what it is, not for what i wanted it to be.

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Breitling Windrider Chronomat (C13356)
Steel & 18k rose ivory dial
Two-tone steel & 18k rose gold Pilot bracelet.

A minute repeater might've been nice actually!

No. Loads of complications aren't what I'm talking about at all - I am merely stating that what we have in the B01 a movement that is visually (and indeed functionally in terms of the chronograph - and even the subdial calibration) the same as the Valjoux 7753. What I'm saying is it could simply have been made to look slightly different - like having the small seconds at 6 for example. That wouldn't have been a fad : it would've been something to just set it apart from what's gone before. All I can say is I'm glad that Zenith thought a little differently when they made their El Primero 10 years ago. It was different then and it's still different now, and yet crucial it has stood the test of time as well.

It just seems a shame that when a manufacturer has 10 years (apparently) of development time, and a blank sheet of paper, that they should come up with something that is visually and functionally identical (apart from the zero-ing seconds and date protection, etc) to the Val 7753. That's all.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

To be honest, im pretty surprised with he amount of negativity the past couple of days. It seems like people are taking some of these changes as a personal attack against them. If there had been no rumors of a new in-house movement, and a new model being released, I find it hard to believe that there would be such an adverse reaction. Expectations may have been too high... The fact remains that most of us didnt like every model in the lineup pre-basel. We still dont. There are a couple of previous and current models that I think are dogs. It doesnt bother me though, because I know how much so many other people like them. Breitling doesnt design and market watches to only me--they have millions of other people to worry about.

Aaaaaanyways...I still have a feeling that many of us will start to enjoy the new models and changes in time. I cant remember a new model or significant face-lift in recent memory that didnt get a bad wrap right off the bat, only to become a much loved model later one (except the sunburst airwolf )... If there wasnt so much anticipation of this model, it would probably just be introduced to a ho-hum attitude and eventually fit right into its place as a staple of the Breitling line.

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-RJ

I don't think anyone is seeing this as a personal attack at all. Well certainly not in my case. I'm just one of number of people who are disappointed, primarily because........
.... or more acurately, our hopes were set too high, especially after seeing what other manufacturers have managed.

It's always the same - if people are passionate about something, they will have strong opinions. That's just the way people are.

Anyway, this'll all die down in a day or so.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

I kind of agree with the thoughts about the movement, although I really do like the new Chronomat.
Personally, I was hoping for a bit more innovation in the aesthetics department. Something along the lines of the B44 movement on the Blackbird and Bentley 6.75. I have never been a fan of the date between the 4 and 5 o'clock.
I'm also more attracted to simpler dials, without a lot of complications. That's why I like my Seawolf so much. As far as I'm concerned, I would be more than happy if they came up with a very simple dial without even a date. That's what attracts me to the Panerai basic models so much. It is also one of the reasons I am thinking to sell my Blacksteel.
Just a few thoughts.
Cheers,
Carl

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'63 Omega Seamaster, 2014 Omega Speedmaster MarkII

"Those who possess a sense of entitlement are seldom satisfied"

I've got to say that I'm also a little surprised at the level of disappointment expressed on the forum over the last couple of days (enough to comment anyway ). Obviously people's expectations/hopes were really high and it's a shame there is so much dissatisfaction with what has been released. This is my first Baselworld so I have absolutely no expectations with any of the outcomes, which no doubt makes things a little easier than those members who have gone through this all before. My position is just being impressed with the new in-house movement, which will no doubt evolve over time.

It's been interesting reading what everyone else has posted, why they're disappointed etc as there are obviously some very valid points there. Is there really no-one who will seriously look at one of the new releases? Especially considering the new movement. Let's face it, for the majority of people in the world they will neither know nor care about the new movement (or any movement at all for that matter) and as I read in another thread this morning, a very valid point was made about whether people wear the watch for themselves and not for others, which is of course a very individual answer that has neither a wrong nor right answer.

As I've stated earlier I don't mind the Chronomat (although will concede that the Bezel isn't great IMO) and the modifications to the Skyracer (from what I have seen) look alright as well. Mind you I liked both watches pre-changes so it's not surprising that my view hasn't logically differed between versions.

Anyway it's a shame that the news to date hasn't been viewed universally in a more positive light, Baselworld has certainly brought excitement. Maybe our views will adapt over time?!

Just my thoughts

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Happines is Good Health and a Bad Memory.
"Ingrid Bergman"

I truly think that when a lot of us see the new Chronomat in person, and with some of the amazing dial colours that are optional, opinions will change. Hope that you guys are not sick of hearing this, but here goes: When the new 09 Seawolf came out, I did not like the looks of it at all, and many of us agreed. The first time I saw the actual watch at my AD, I knew that I had to have one. I got one a couple of months ago, and now wear it every day. It is my favourite Breitling.
Now, I am not saying that we will all rush out and buy a new Chronomat. However, I do feel that opinions will change.
The 'Media' section of the new Chronomat on the Breitling website has an excellent 32-page PDF format press release about the new Chronomat. A lot of interesting reading.
Anyway, I will keep an open mind until I see the new watch.
Cheers,
Carl

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'63 Omega Seamaster, 2014 Omega Speedmaster MarkII

"Those who possess a sense of entitlement are seldom satisfied"

Dude, we're totally sick of hearing it

Seriously though, I happened to see a new seawolf right when they came out at my AD... This was before I had a chance to read all the negative reactions toward it. I thought it was awesome, and was very surprised to see that people didnt agree with me. Sometimes it just takes a bit of time for something to come around...

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-RJ

To me the disappointment about the B01 and the new chronomat seems pretty fair, but I think there are a couple of points worth mentioning:

First off, the B01 is apparently made to be backwards compatible with earlier cases. Maybe this was a major design goal that put restrictions on how many new features were to be implemented? I don't know, but it makes sense in practical terms as this does not put too much strain on developement of new cases and models, or of the movement. And perhaps you will get the option of "upgrading" your movement on an existing watch...? That would be a good way to generate some income

As for the new chronomat I think a watch like this is perhaps doomed to become a bit of a (excuse my french) bastard. A new version of a classic model with a new in-house movement. Maybe the funky font on the bezel will die with this model? Maybe this and the new bracelet on the 125-anniv. Navitimer are indications of a larger, gradual revamping?

To me it seems that the new things that have been introduced lately, combined with starting out with in-house movements are pointing to some pretty noticable changes ahead. So these first steps are perhaps kind of experimental.

Anyway, I have little doubt that the Chronomat B01 will be considered a classic in time.


I'll round off my post with a little perspective on changes of tastes:
My dad told me about back in the day when he bought the rollie sub that I have now. He got a discount because the dealer had trouble moving them. People thought they were too big and showy.

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"Either this man is dead or my watch has stopped!"
- Groucho Marx

The case compatibility thing is a bit bizarre to me - build a new movement from scratch but limit yourself to making sure it fit's in a predefined hole - that sounds short sighted, but I guess there's a reason.

There is one big difference between the driving force behind the B01 and other in house movements. The timing of Breitling's movement, and the production numbers required were dictated by Swatch Group's decision to cease ebauche supplies. They had to reach a certain standard and certain volume by a fixed date.

That may have forced compromises from what they might otherwise have done - it's obviously easier to be innovative if you don't have to hit the ground running with production volumes in the tens of thousands and if it was OK to delay in order to get it right.

That's not the same challenge faced by many of the other manufactures who already have a history of producing their own movements, so it's possible that the innovation will come as the pressure is relieved.

However, I do think that this is a distinctly separate discussion from the design one around the chronomat.