The Breitling Watch Source Forums

And for Breitling a price increase would be a good thing - they likely wouldn't be able to produce the same volume of pieces (at least initially) so higher prices will help to match supply and demand.

In response to the initial post about the value of ETA based watches falling after the transition... it could go the other way too, couldn't it? I've been digging around old posts on the omega forums to educate myself on the Co-axial movement that is in my inbound Planet Ocean Chrono. What I'm seeing is that Omega had some reliability issues with the Co-axial initially, and buyers were seeking out the pre-coaxial watches as being more desirable and reliable. The same could happen with Breitling as they work out the bugs of their in-house movements. It is possible that the rock solid reliability of an ETA based mov't will hold more value and be more desirable than the in-house mov't if any reliability issues surface. Just speculation, but it could happen I suppose.

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why would yet another price increase be a good thing? dont necessarily disagree Andy but why do you think it would be?

dont forget percetion is everything just notching up the price doesnt mean people think its worth more!!

Not good for us, but if an in house movement Chronomat were the same price as the current B13 / 7750 driven Chronomat then you have to assume that it would be just as popular - likely more so as it now has an in house movement.

That's fine if Breitling can produce that many movements in production year 1. If they can't then delays start, people complain about the wait, etc or corners are cut in production to meet demand (less likely). If however the prices increase then demand is suppressed and Breitling can meet the demand.

You could argue that demand outstripping supply is a good thing - and in some cases it is, that's the argument behind small run LEs, but currently the Chronomat is too mass market for that logic to work well.

What might be interesting is to see a year one LE Chronomat with in house movement, but I doubt that will happen as the number would still be high - and is an LE of 5,000, 10,000 etc really an LE.

yeah thats an interesting thought.

i agree the chronomat needs to be done first and done right.

be interesting to see breitling internal sales data by brand to see what sales come from where and profit margin etc.

mmmm can you tell im an management accountant???

Does all this mean that our current BLings will be more expensive to fix if they need a new movement or how is that gonna work?

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SA-Baton White Dial/ProII
Tissot Le Locle

I see a big opportunity for Breitling.

Breitling is nothing more than a case and dial manufacture at this moment. This is the big difference between a company like Rolex and Breitling.

Relying on another MFG to make movements and then modifying them so they can be better is just marketing BS. It a nice story to cover up the fact that they don't make there own. It's actually marketing genius when you think about it.

I am sure that the design patents for the movements that ETA supplies are long since expired. They could simply duplicate the parts and make it themselves. But that would be the wrong way to go...

Designing a modular movement that shares common components with very modern technologies would be the way to go. Then selling lower end movements to all the small watch companies that ETA cuts off would be the perfect move. In the end Breitling will be much better off and I would bet that there costs would actually be lower.

I wonder if breitling will make electronic movements for the Aerospace, Airwolf and Emergency?

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This is a Rochefoucauld, the thinnest water-resistant watch in the world. Singularly unique, sculptured in design,hand-crafted in Switzerland.
In Philadelphia it's worth Fifty bucks.

Well, I don't agree, producing an own movement and then boast about with the fact, that "we are a manufacturer too" is pure marketing too - nothing more. Everything in this world of luxury watches is pure marketing. It's all about "virtual" differentiation, which has nothing to do with measurable facts.

The ETA 7750 in its higher grades is the most rugged and most durable mechanical chrono movement out there (well, next to the Rolex Daytona which has no date feature - and the Valgranges, which is much too big in my eyes). Furthermore you find everywhere watchmakers who know this movement by heart (in case of need for service). For me, this are two important advantages of the B13. Furthermore the B13 is an improved ETA 7750 (Breitling tune the movement parts on each other). This is a good thing both for durability and precision. A new movement would have to be on the market another 10 years before teething troubles would have gone...

V.

Well some interesting thoughts.

Not sure I see things quite as black and white as either txturbo or vorollo, but I am closer to txturbo's thinking, and I do agree that if the quanitities can be produced while maintainign quality the supply of movements to other companies would be a stroke of genius. Not sure if Breitling would consider making that investment, but it would be interesting.

I can't agree with vorollo that "everything in the world of luxury watches is pure marketing". I understand the point, but at the end of the day these are mechanical marvels - hundreds of parts in a small environment subject to constant stresses and strain with an accuracy greater than 99.9% - that's not marketing.

I don't quite grasp the 10 years to eliminate teething problems either - the majority of parts will be proven - a 4Hz movement needs the same basic escapement, index, wheels, etc - and I hope no one really thinks that Breitling is going to reinvent the wheel (figuratively and literally) with an in house movement. Will the design evolve, sure, but so does every movement.

To GZGym1 - it shouldn't have much impact on servicing / repair costs for existing watches. It's highly unusual for a mechanical watch to need a brand new movement, and parts will still be readily available, either from ETA / Valjoux or from existing suppliers (depending on whether the required part is from the original ebauche or from the modifications made by Breitling).

Finally, in terms of Super Quartz movements, I have no idea whether the ETA Thermoline movements are included in the upcoming changes - I assume they are, but Breitling already has a track record of quartz innovation so I wouldn't be surprised to see something from them.

You beat me to a reply Roff, that was (broadly speaking at least) in line with yout comments!

So I will simply say -

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Driver8

Site Moderator

Well said Roff. Completely agree.

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Certified watch nut.

My comment was a bit provocative... And of course, this is highly subjective. Personally I prefer to buy my next Breitling with the B13 inside instead of buying it with a new inhouse movement at +xx% and without the secure presumption, that it's bullet proof. But maybe I just like the fact, that Breitling improve the highest-grade 7750 (as IWC, maybe IWC does even more), and I am just a victim of their marketing .

What if Breitling launch their super-new caliber and it won't turn out to be bullet proof (and for me Breitlings just have to be rugged, robust every-day-watches)... I need a good, solid watch with a great track record and Breitling presently offer them. So what are we waiting for?

V.

Yeah I can see that - I'm not sure that I will buy a first year Chronomat because I'm not sure it's enough to make a Chronomat a 'muist have' for me - maybe, maybe not. But I am fortunate that I don't have to consider it as an 'only' watch, and I might feel differently if It were. I also know that I am extremely fortunate not to have to be too concerned about the price point, and recognise that not everyone is in that position.

I don't think it will take 10 years to understand if a movement is reliable. I am sure that the base ETA movements were designed on a piece of paper without the aid of a computer. Now you can build and test the entire movement virtually.

If I were a manufacture and every assembly that my supplier sent me did not meet my specifications they would not be my supplier for long. So Breitling setting up a rework line just to make the part right shows me that they would do it even if the movement were perfect from ETA.

As for marketing it truly is BS...

Breitling for Bentley is a great example. Tie your product to an upper crust luxury line. Does the watch go through the Bentley factory? No.
Breitling just took there upper end complications and moved them to a new case design, stamped Bentley and stuck there hand out for more cash. Again marketing genius. They should at least make the leather band out of the same material as the car seats.

Tie your product to aviation. Technical and inspiring, every boy dreams of flying but no one needs a watch to be able to fly. Any aircraft built in the past 50 years has a clock on board. But wearing a Breitling put a little bit of a plane on your wrist because you could calculate with a slide rule, like that EVER happens. I guarantee you that 99.999% of the planet have no idea how to use a standard slide rule let alone one on your wrist. Would you actually calculate a fuel load with it?

Marketing over functionality is another story. Instruments for professionals? I don't think so. Look at the case sizes. Bigger = more sales, not a better instrument. The Super Avenger is a perfect example. Would a pilot actually wear it? It could actually get in the way of the ability to control the aircraft. It's not a comfortable watch to wear at all, imagine holding the stick of your aircraft and pulling a few g's with a 1/3 of a pound of stainless sticking off your wrist at 18MM thick. You want a comfortable watch, try a 1990's era chronomat, actually designed by a pilot.

Diving watch? Super Ocean Steel fish.. 2000 Meters? The deepest anyone has ever gone in a SCUBA set is about 300 meters. And a pro diver would never ever wear a mechanical watch nowadays. You would use a seiko or citizen specialized diving computer. Most people would take there Breitling off before they even get in the pool.

All that being said I love the look!

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This is a Rochefoucauld, the thinnest water-resistant watch in the world. Singularly unique, sculptured in design,hand-crafted in Switzerland.
In Philadelphia it's worth Fifty bucks.

No, I really don't like these huge Breitling models at all.

We seem to love these watches for certain reasons. They seem to arouse some ancient feelings in us, some urge to conquest unknown worlds with such a watch on our wrists. At least, Breitling manage to produce watches that speak to me. No IWC, no TAG, no Rolex, no Omega, no other brand has managed this. No Patek, no JLC would manage this.

The next Breitling I am going to purchase is quite comfortable and still very functional and rugged. It's almost 40 mm in diameter and 14.8 mm thick. I am going to love it and wear it wherever I cross the wild... Yeah!

V.