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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Rene, all lume up to 1962/63 was Radium, as u know ?
and the 1191 is a waterproof model ?


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:26 pm 
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yes I know that all lume until 62/63 was radium . I just dont buy that the lume on this watch is radium

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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:53 am 
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I have bought a Geiger counter that should arrive soon. What sort of reading should I be looking for? I would assume a dial refinisher won't be using Radium?


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:04 am 
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I have attached some photos using a usb microscope


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Last edited by Montys on Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:20 am 
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let me repeat my request, may I please see examples of refinished dials of this quality ?

let us also remember that this is a entry level chronograph w/ a base metal case (market value approx. $/€ 1k), so not the typical target for the "Italy geniuses" we hear about, refinishing a single dial at this quality level would by far surpass the market value of this watch.



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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:19 am 
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Montys wrote:
I have attached some photos using a usb microscope


Incredible photos. I will be looking into USB microscopes!


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:51 am 
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WatchFred wrote:
let me repeat my request, may I please see examples of refinished dials of this quality ?

let us also remember that this is a entry level chronograph w/ a base metal case (market value approx. $/€ 1k), so not the typical target for the "Italy geniuses" we hear about, refinishing a single dial at this quality level would by far surpass the market value of this watch.


or turn it around ?
As this is an entry level 1191 with chromed case there should be 100's of similar watches with similar dials that should have been offered for sale ?

you know me Fred , love my fence on any 'never seen before' combinations and this is certainly one of them , and I'll happily eat crow when 2 more pop up

And I am really curious about that radiation count as well , even if the radium has been removed the dial should still emit more than a tritium lumed watch

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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:42 am 
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not really, my friend, "turning it around" doesn't work, as there are almost no late 1950s (B was still repurposing their 1940s overstock of cases) of the 11xx, the first 1191 we see more often are around the mid 60s, extremely similar to the Toptime 2003 that seems to have replaced them, the 1191 only appears in the 1952 catalog (in a dial variation and "log lugs" I've never seen in the metal btw.), no mention in later catalogs or advertisements.

I think the "logic" of having a SINGLE such dial manufactured is truly off, this clearly would be a master's work if really not OEM ? for a $6-800 value chromed entry level piece ?

but we'll add that to your favorite spot on the fence ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:42 am 
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Unfortunately my Geiger counter from Amazon isn't actually capable of measuring Alpha rays! I attach three photos of the watch under UV light then 2 seconds later and another 2.
ImageImageImageImage


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:12 am 
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So not radium then I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:20 am 
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buddman wrote:
So not radium then I guess.


Still no idea unfortunately. According to this article the dial should glow under UV light. I have ordered another Alpha counter so hopefully will know soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:17 am 
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You missed the link to your article.

Radium caused the fluorescence on the dial by a chemical reaction with zinc sulfide. It wouldn't glow anymore and It would not glow in response to exposure to light. So I do t think it could be radium, but another luminous paint.


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:20 am 
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buddman wrote:
You missed the link to your article.

Radium caused the fluorescence on the dial by a chemical reaction with zinc sulfide. It wouldn't glow anymore and It would not glow in response to exposure to light. So I do t think it could be radium, but another luminous paint.



Here is the article form a rather serious collector
http://rolexpassionreport.com/15606/the ... -luminous/


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:35 am 
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I missed the relevant point that you were using a UV light! Sorry.

Didn't immediately see that radium would continue to glow once the UV was switched off. Did I miss it?


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:55 am 
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To be honest I'm not sure what it means. Does anyone know?


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