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 Post subject: Would you be upset too?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:03 pm 
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Against my better judgement, I took my super avenger and navitimer world to a local watch repair guy. This guy is Rolex certified and works on a lot of high end pieces. Shop is in a very affluent town. Anyway, super avenger was just jammed, and he fixed it no problem. Then navitimer world had one of the small hands fall off the small bottom dial. I asked him if he could get brietling parts and he said yes and that his friend works for a breitiling authorized repair center. Anyway, a month goes by with just the usual "give me two more weeks" a couple of times. He really was never clear about what needed to be done and would just tell me that he needed more parts. He also never really gave me a price even though I asked multiple times. Repair ended up costing $477 which was jaw dropping to me. Why would he not be clear about the price? I would have taken it to brietling. I pay him and am happy to have the watch. Family member, who owns a couple pateks and knows watches, checked it out and picked it up. I am working out of state.

I get the navitimer world back, and it looks good. Speck of dust underneath the crystal, but looks good. I go back into have him put a crock strap on the world when I'm back visiting family and ask him what he had done. He goes on to tell me that I must have dropped it because the dial was sheared off when he opened it up and that he has double sided taped the mechanism to the dial! I have double sided tape inside my watch and didn't even know that. He charged me almost 500 dollars to do this. Granted, the watch looks great from the outside. He found the correct breitiling hand and attached it. It appears to be running fine. But, what would possess someone to put tape inside of a watch without telling the owner?

Also, is there a chance he is lying and broke the mechanism from the dial himself? There was no sign of the dial being broken when I had it. The hand fell off so I don't know if that's a symptom of the dial breaking from the mechanism. Does anyone know more? I'm thinking he broke the dial from the mechanism when he tried to attach the new hand.

Any feedback and thoughts would be appreciated.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:50 pm 
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Im going to take a stab at this.........

First and foremost, always send your watch to the original watch maker/manufacturer. The extra coin on the front end is not worth all the problems on the back end. In this case you might have been out the same cost just sending it over to Breitling.

After reading your experience, Im curious to know why you did not ask for a refund on the service that was done to the Navi world. You have a piece which is represented by professionals world wide, therefor expect professional service. Clearly this watch maker fell short.

A small speck of dust on the inside of the crystal is a big problem if it wasn't there before. Who knows how the hand was broken or fell off or even sheared off. The point is it needs to be fixed..... Properly fixed.

At this point if he made things right and rectified the double sided tape, your best chalking it up to a "lesson learned"

If you still have dust on the inside of the crystal and tape in your time piece, I suggest you do whats right for business sake and take action to obtain a refund or correct the problem.

Never settle for less. These are "Instruments for Professionals" therefor the men and women who work on them, wear them, and repair them should act accordingly.

I wish you a satisfying and just outcome to the problem your experiencing. Good luck to you.

raymak



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:49 am 
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I pretty much agree with Raymak on this one.

The repairer would've used double-sided tape on the dial if one of the feet that usually attaches the dial to the movement was broken. I've come across this as reasonably commonplace for repairs to dials where a replacement isn't available any longer, and amongst custom watches built from the parts bin as the feet on dials are not in the same place for all movements. Hence if you are trying to attach a flat generic dial (with no feet) to a movement, then double sided tape is an adequate way of fixing it.

HOWEVER, a replacement dial IS available for the Navi World.......from Breitling. If you'd sent it directly to Breitling in the first place (and if the dial foot was already damaged : you have no way of knowing that of course) then they would've simply replaced it with a brand new one. Of course it may have cost a little more, but at least you'd have a fully original watch.

As far as the rest goes, well the dust under the crystal shows a slight lack of care and attention to detail, and he definitely should've kept you informed of everything before he fixed it - the missing feet, etc. (BTW, IMO the words "lack of care and attention to detail" shouldn't ever be used to describe a watchmaker!)

Personally I'd be very unhappy with the lack of comms as he should've told you in order to give you the option of going to Breitling before he "fixed" it.

Not entirely sure what recourse you have to the repairer other than asking for a refund so you can get it fixed properly at Breitling. Or you may just have to live with it and chalk it up to experience, and get the dial replaced at the next service.... if the tape bothers you as much as it would bother me.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:54 am 
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I think it's been said. Double sided tape doesn't surprise me if you choose to go a non authorised repair route, and is less of an issue for me than the dust which speaks to sloppy practices. Only real solution at this point is going to be approved service which will address things properly and provide an insight into the true cost of not using Breitling service.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:51 am 
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Thanks very much for all of your thoughtful responses. I know the guy will be very upset if I contest the charge because it seemed like it to took a long time for him to fix the watch. But, at the same time, the repair just wasn't done right. My main concern is if he damaged the watch further. Is it common to have a broken dial when the hand falls off or is it common to break the dial when trying to replace the hand?

Obviously, I have a trouble trusting this guy's judgment at this point. Not providing a quote for a 500 dollar repair and putting tape in a watch for a customer who was clearly very worried about only using breitiling parts just blows my mind. He told me he tried to get a breitiling dial but breitiling said to send it in. It seemed to me like he had already spent so much time on the watch that he didn't want to do that because then all his work would be undone/wasted.

Thanks very much

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:04 am 
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I totally forgot this part too. The guy said that he broke the mechanism, and he needed to get a new mechanism. Does he mean the movement when he says this?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:12 am 
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Carpinem wrote:
Thanks very much for all of your thoughtful responses. I know the guy will be very upset if I contest the charge because it seemed like it to took a long time for him to fix the watch. But, at the same time, the repair just wasn't done right. My main concern is if he damaged the watch further. Is it common to have a broken dial when the hand falls off or is it common to break the dial when trying to replace the hand?

Obviously, I have a trouble trusting this guy's judgment at this point. Not providing a quote for a 500 dollar repair and putting tape in a watch for a customer who was clearly very worried about only using breitiling parts just blows my mind. He told me he tried to get a breitiling dial but breitiling said to send it in. It seemed to me like he had already spent so much time on the watch that he didn't want to do that because then all his work would be undone/wasted.

Thanks very much

As the guy, and you, have found out, Breitling do not supply parts : it's for this reason that you should always send a watch in for repairs to Breitling whenever possible, and it's also why I am always extremely dubious when jewellers/watchmakers /repair agents claim to use OEM Breitling parts. TBH, the hand he replaced is probably not genuine Breitling either - just a very close match (which is quite easy considering it's just a thin piece of plain metal). Obviously it's not remotely as complex as a dial, so a non-OEM hand isn't an issue on a practical level, but even so.... it would bother me just out of principle.

The hand falling off would not cause the dial feet to break on their own, but if the dial shifted even a tiny amount (because of a broken foot) then that could conceivably cause the hand to come off.

Why the foot came off the dial is going to be a mystery. Yes a drop or a hard knock could break one (or both), but I would've thought it would've had to be loose or not welded properly in the first place. It could've been a manufacturing fault that Breitling's QC missed, or it's also conceivable that the guy could've damaged it during disassembly. You just won't ever know.

IMO you have two choices going forward - a) live with it for now and ask Breitling to rectify it properly at the next service, or b) get Breitling to fix it properly now, but that will be expensive as they will service it (again) as well as replace the dial.

Unfortunately it's just a sad lesson that saving a few pounds/bucks upfront by going the non-aopproved route doesn't always pay off in the long term.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:15 am 
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Carpinem wrote:
I totally forgot this part too. The guy said that he broke the mechanism, and he needed to get a new mechanism. Does he mean the movement when he says this?

A new "mechanism"???? I'm not sure how much damage could be done to require a totally new movement, but if he REALLY means the whole thing, then that'll be a BIG issue as he certainly wouldn't be able to get hold of a genuine Breitling B24!! Even if he's replaced parts of the movement, it won't be genuine Breitling parts either.

This situation is getting worse and worse the more I read!

IMO you should find out EXACTLY what the guy has replaced, then get your watch off to Breitling and ask them to sort whatever this guy has done inside, while at the same time taking some steps towards either getting some kind of refund from him (or ask him to pay for the Breitling repairs). If he's used non-original parts and MacGuyvered it together without informing you of what he's going to do, then he's basically gone some way into turning it into a Franken-ling. Fine if that's what you wanted.....but it doesn't sound remotely like it was!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:21 am 
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Send it off to Breitling, ask a quote and show that quote to your "watchmaker"! See what he says...

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:59 am 
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Driver8 wrote:
Carpinem wrote:
I totally forgot this part too. The guy said that he broke the mechanism, and he needed to get a new mechanism. Does he mean the movement when he says this?

A new "mechanism"???? I'm not sure how much damage could be done to require a totally new movement, but if he REALLY means the whole thing, then that'll be a BIG issue as he certainly wouldn't be able to get hold of a genuine Breitling B24!! Even if he's replaced parts of the movement, it won't be genuine Breitling parts either.

This situation is getting worse and worse the more I read!

IMO you should find out EXACTLY what the guy has replaced, then get your watch off to Breitling and ask them to sort whatever this guy has done inside, while at the same time taking some steps towards either getting some kind of refund from him (or ask him to pay for the Breitling repairs). If he's used non-original parts and MacGuyvered it together without informing you of what he's going to do, then he's basically gone some way into turning it into a Franken-ling. Fine if that's what you wanted.....but it doesn't sound remotely like it was!


Pretty upset. I called him and left a voicemail. The watch was originally picked up a week and a half ago. I've really only been wearing the super avenger, which was stupid. I should have spent more time looking at the navitimer. I work in law and have been very busy. I'm going to get a play by play from him. At this point, i just called and told him the watch isn't keeping time well and there is dust under the crystal. I've talked to other people knowledgable about watches and would like to talk to you about the repair. I will post back once I hear from him.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:54 am 
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So I spoke to the watch repair guy. As expected, it went pretty terribly. He walked me through what he did. He said that that the feet were broken on the dial which caused the hand to fall off. He said while putting the hand in and setting the watch back up, a wheel broke. He said that he replaced the wheel with an ETA part. He said that when he tried again, another wheel broke. He replaced that wheel as well. He claims these are genuine parts and indistinguishable from the wheels that broke. This watch is an older navitimer world (2010).

He then proceeded to tell me that I wouldn't have known any of this (see e.g. tape, broken wheels ect.) if he hadn't told me. Really just floored. After cursing me out, he said that he would give a full refund if I brought the watch back so he could remove the tape and undo what he did to the watch.

Not really sure where to go from this point. Since the watch had an ETA movement, is he right about the wheels?

Thanks

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:17 am 
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No. Breitling used modified parts and / or tighter tolerances. You now have a franken watch that is going to cost a fortune to put right, he needs to do more than refund you.



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:07 am 
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sad story. wheels breaking while putting the hands in - sounds like a butcher, not a watchmaker.

and he seems to be suggesting to give you a refund after he'll remove those wheels and then what, reinstall the ones he admits he has broken ?

I really think you now need to talk to a laywer, not some friendly watch enthusiasts - the costs of repairing the damage this watchbutcher caused will be massive.



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:12 am 
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It sounds to me like the only satisfactory solution would be for him to agree to settle the bill which BUSA send you for putting it right.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:47 am 
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DO NOT ALLOW HIM TO TOUCH YOUR WATCH AGAIN.

You have two options at this point. Contesting your credit card may get you a temporary credit but will most likely result in a lost claim and they will deduct the payment anyway. You have to remain stern with him and let him know that your requesting a full refund (or partial depending on what you think is fair) with no questions asked. If he does not comply you have a lawyer write him a demand letter. The demand letter will state that you are requesting a refund as final settlement or this matter will proceed to litigation.

The letter alone will scare him as you have proof he provided you with poor service, aftermarket parts, and a petty fix for a high end time piece. You also need the watch so you can obtain a new quote or secondary reference of another professional confirming the poor workmanship to your watch assuming it went that far, which I don't anticipate.

If he is not cooperative. I would recommend you take detailed pictures of the imperfections of your watch, the communications you have had back and forth whether it be email, voicemail, or text and begin to prepare writing your reviews on every watch board, internet avenue, yelp, and anywhere else you can think of. I hope it doesn't get this far, however I have used this tactic in the past to obtain a refund because the shop owner didn't want my words and my evidence being displayed on yelp as I so gracefully did.

Your time is worth something. Be fair. Be stern. Focus on integrity in all your dealings and you'll be fine in the end.


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