The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Actually Adrian i think it does go all the way to 15mm at the clasp - the same as a Sub. It was the main thing I disliked about the one I owned...for about 12 hours! From a side view on the wrist it just looked like a lollypop. A $10,000 lollypop.


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SHARKMAN

21mm at the lugs tapering to 17mm buckle (I just measured).

The skinny bracelet was the no.1 reason I put off buying a DSSD for so many years. But when I finally own one, it's truly a non-issue.

The genius clasp allows quick & accurate adjustment as your wrist contracts & expands with the weather so you can always wear the watch snug but not too tight. If you're used to big/heavy watches, the DSSD wears very comfortably -- much more so than my EM for instance.

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a few Pams...

yeah, even though it looks "off", everyone says for a big watch it wears incredibly well. no brainer with the micro adjustment. just because i know its out there, i wish every watch i own had that feature...lol

That DSSD and the Sub LV are the only Rolex models I would ever consider buying at my age (38). I personally find that they stand out from the rest of the range. Oh, and I've lusted after a Yachtmaster with platinum bezel for years, although it might look a bit too 'new money' for my taste. I wouldn't consider any other Rolex until well passed the age of 50.

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life's too short and you only live once

very interesting. so things like the DD2 or RG Daytona or YG GMT2 C have no appeal to you at this age?

Too "new money?" Oh my. Personally I have always respected the nouveau riche more - they didn't get a golden foundation (and the arrogant stick up their butt) to start with and made something from nothing. If Rolex means "not old money," give me a dozen.




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SHARKMAN

Did anyone mention residuals? Rolex do extremely well at holding their value. So even if you know nothing about watches you can always cash it in further down the line.

Personally I appreciate and have considered certain models, but as yet have not committed. The difference in quality and movement between Rolex and any other high end (large production) watch manufacturer is very small for me.

Its a bit like the decision to drop Rolex as the Bond watch. There was a time when Rolex was ahead of other manufacturers, but the gap was quickly addressed. A Rolex is now far more about recognition and conformity than function, but then again the technical aspects of watches have been conquered, so all that's left is fashion?

Today I was at a lunch GTG with a bunch of serious collectors who were candid about all the problems their multi-100,000-dollars high-brands & independants watches were having, and I was frankly shocked.

Makes all the B01 early movement issues seemed more a minor toothache & less root canal imho.

Also made me respect Rolex & their quality control even more (though I still only like the DSSD regretfully...).

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a few Pams...

Well my wife's DJ has been out of COSC specs since purchase which I have yet to bring in for check. Actually IMO it's a matter of who is buying the watch because there are many who do not go into very fine details and as long as they see the watch moving they thought the watch is running great. I find it rather easy to pick on a watch and find faults on it if I were to go into very fine details, especially when a watch has been lying in an AD for very long and assuming if the watch has not been wound for quite a while chances are that the lubricant might have migrated from where it was supposed to be and eventually causes more deviation in the accuracy. There are some, who after experienced lemons starting spitting on the particular brand and model in every forum and youtube clips they can find relating to it. I saw quite a number of you tube clips relating to B01 before I bought the watch last year to browse the reviews. Came across quite a couple of negative comments in the different clips. Recently I noticed that our administrator posted a review on B01 on youtube and after seeing it I read the comments below and again saw some negative comments. That was when I noticed that all the negative comments that I came across last year in all the clips and including this recent one were all coming from the same person! This person had been spitting on B01 since last year in every youtube clip he found and he is still hunting new youtube clips to spit on B01 till today! Lol....

IMO all brands and models have their lemons, I don't think any brand has more superior quality than the other, unless they are not in the same league. For eg, you cannot compare the quality of a Rolex vs a Fortis. But you can compare a Rolex to a Breitling, a Panerai, or an Omega, but each has their own strengths and lemons. As for the high end watches problems u were talking about, I guess the watches were "high end" because of the quality of work done on the aesthetic appearance of the watch and movement, but not really on the technical aspects. I don't own a high end watch but I think the difference in price was simply caused by more human interventions, more work done on the finishing, especially the movement so as to obtain the Geneva Seal...but if we compare the technical aspects such as accuracy, I don't think they are more superior than a normal luxury watch. Maybe those who have such collections will know better....

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Breitling Chronomat 01 Limited Edition
Breitling Navitimer 01 46mm

Probably going to regret stepping in here, but so many inaccuracies I can't let it pass......

1. Spend a few minutes on BreitlingSource and you will find a lot more than one person with problems with the B01. No idea how many people have commented on YouTube (and don't care), but many people have had B01 issues.
2. To suggest that Rolex is no better quality than Rolex is to completely ignore the value of the vertical integration that Rolex has worked so hard to develop in order to ensure quality. If only for the sake that they control the manufacture of parts the quality is superior in general (yes there are outliers in any manufacturing process). It should also be noted that some Fortis use the same base movements as Breitling.....
3. To equate a high end watch with aesthetic appearance alone is wholly inaccurate. The Geneva Seal is completely irrelevant to the vast majority of manufacturers, and to suggest that a minute repeater, tourbillon, etc is done for aesthetic purposes is to ignore the purpose of them completely.

Ultra high end pieces are showcases for technical capability - produce a tourbillon / minute repeater / etc and sell more 'normal' pieces, and by their very nature they are more fragile and more expensive to maintain because they push the boundaries of what can be done, and do not use serial production processes. No one could reasonably call me a Rolex fanboy but to completely ignore the vast steps forward that they have made in ensuring consistent quality is short sighted. It should also be noted that the work that Rolex has done serves as a model for what many manufacturers are trying to achieve in terms of vertical integration - they are literally driving the industry forward by setting the standard.

I would like to clarify a few points:

1. I know many have faced issues with B01, but I do come across many who faced issues with other LINGS that are not in-house too. But because B01 is Breitling's first in-house movement, people tend to pay more attention to it and people who have tried and experienced lemons tend to make more comments about it in forums. Maybe u should redo a poll on B01 owners to see the percentage of those who faced issues vs those who did not. The last I could remember is that majority did not face issues. I don't know the situation now but I seem to see lesser of those complaints nowsadays. Maybe the problems still exist but again it brings to my point, if the issues are nothing new then people start getting lazy to bring up in the forum again. Alll models and movements have their lemons. You can spit at B01 all you want because I am not sure if u have even experienced owning one yourself in the first place or u are just concluding based on the few negative comments when there are so many many more B01 owners out there who never faced issues with it. Being a B01 owner myself I can say that it has been running more accurate than my wife's datejust. Again many will disagree with me because their experiences are different. But for me, I am not wrong to say that a Rolex might not necessary be better in terms of quality than a Ling because my experience having them tells me that.

2. Rolex is greater in quality but better than a Ling or a PAM, or an Omega? I would like to see some solid proof or may you enlighten me of why and how u classify the quality of a Rolex is better than the rest. If it's that superior over it's peers then I wonder why a Rolex is classified in the same league as them. Anyway a Fortis uses the same base movement with a Breitling but I don't think they modify the movement heavily like what Breitling does? I am not sure of that but there must be good reasons why they are not in the same packing order.

3. I understand yr point about high end watches being equipped with minute repeaters, tourbillions, etc. of course such complex complications justifies the cost of the watch and also they contribute to the accuracy or functionality of the watch. what I am comparing is an apple vs apple. For eg, a plain PP watch with a simple date function vs a normal Rolex datejust. Same functions. What makes the PP a high end watch and the Rolex only a luxury watch? More human interventions and the amount of finishing they do on the movement to obtain the Geneva Seal. Plus limited production amount. The things that they do that brings up the cost of the watch has a lot to do with the asthetic apperance and exclusivity but doesn't really improve the function or durability. Of course when we start to consider materials used, expensive complications like tourbillions, I would agree with what u have mentioned. But if we compare 2 watches with the same complications but different leagues, eg, a PP or AP, vs a Ling or a Rolex, I don't think a PP or AP can last longer than a Ling or Rolex. I would say they all last long and are competitively durable. But anyway I guess we are talking about different points and I know where you are coming from, which I am not really referring to that.

Before someone starts blasting away I would once again like to clarify that I have never doubt Rolex's quality, but I have to disagree that a Rolex is better in quality than it's peers(Breitling, PAM, Omega, etc). I still feel that they are competitively good in their own ways but still have their own lemons. I am getting the new GMT Smurf soon so would post a review on it to see if it's really "better"....

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Breitling Chronomat 01 Limited Edition
Breitling Navitimer 01 46mm

Well, truthfully, that's not saying much. If our standard is 'less than 50% of owners experienced problems' then we need a new standard!



I didn't.




I own one.





You can't have it both ways. If people have negative experiences with Breitlings then well 'there are lemons with everything' and 'more people don't have problems', but when you have one Breitling more accurate than one Rolex then "I am not wrong to say that a Rolex might not necessary be better in terms of quality than a Ling". You cannot use single examples to prove anything, and despite suggestions, no one other than you is.



By whom?



Well one has a shiny Breitling badge on it, and to paraphrase Jeremy Clarkson, that's "worth it's weight in myrrh"



PP no longer uses the Geneva Seal as a measure of quality. Ignoring the meaningless labels of 'high end' and 'luxury', one of the major differences between PP and Rolex is the production volumes and processes. Rolex produces close to a million watches per year using extremely high quality serial production methods. PP doesn't, it uses a predominantly hand built production process and produces much smaller quantities. I don't see the two brands as comparable at all because it is likely a different buyer.

>>>Maybe u should redo a poll on B01 owners to see the percentage of those who faced issues vs those who did not. The last I could remember is that majority did not face issues<<<

This is where I stopped reading. Based on members here, a meaningful number have had problems with the B01 movement, which is not to say it is a crappy movement. To the contrary, all indications are it will be a very good movement when some issues get ironed out. My Navi 01 LE is sitting at my AD right now waiting for me to pick it up tomorrow. Hopefully BUSA fixed the issue with running the chrono stopping the entire watch!!!! That is a known problem which is why, I reckon, I'm getting it back so quickly.

But back to my point, the B01 movement likely will be a success as fixes are applied and adjustments are made to each manufacture run. Shoot, it took Omega years to finally admit their was a problem with the 33XX series chrono movements. There were several well reported issues. Still, it was nowhere near a majority of the movements. I've had 3 with that movement and not one issue.

Which gets us back again to the point - of the many things Rolex does well, one of the best is how they keep their movements and make refinements to them, constantly making them better, hardier, etc... And there is no fanfare. They just always LOOK for any reported wrinkle or unreported latent matters, get ahead of the curve, improve and refine. It remains the same movement. Breitling needs many generations of the B01 before we will know if they, like Rolex, are proactive with their manufacture movements or complacent. We simply do not know yet.

10% failure is too much. 5% is too much. The movement has a couple known problems and not all, or even most, will suffer from them. Breitling service seems to be getting the learning curve up and running.

No other conclusion makes any sense - the jury is still out on the B01.

Now, that said, I can't wait to get the Navi 01 back on the wrist. It is without a doubt the favorite watch I've owned, including several Rolex. But I would never seek to state the case in favor of a fairly new and to some extent flawed movement against the decades perfected movement. I'd feel...well, just plain silly.

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SHARKMAN

Nice debate and points above Sharkman and Roff. Thks for taking the time to state your points and I know where you are coming from. Basically movement wise I do agree that comparing a Rolex movement that has been perfected after so many years vs a new movement like B01 is silly since B01 is still in the "trial and error" phase. But how do you compare the accuracy and quality of the Rolex movement vs other modified Breitling movements that had gone through many years of refinement? I have seen many issues on them too... I am not familiar with other brands like PAM and Omega but you mean all are in the same situation as B01? Basically if Rolex is the only brand whose movements have been perfected after many years of refinement while others are not or still in the trial phase then hey I will agree hands down the statement that "Rolex is better in Quality and durability than other luxury brands" cos it will be a valid and solid point.

Actually I have joined Rolex forum and came across many problems of them too, and to my disappointment, many also complained their level of service. I do hope you guys are right because I am getting my smurf soon and will not want to send every watch that I have to the service centre soon after getting them. As I have said, so far I find it rather easy to pick on a mechanical watch.

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Breitling Chronomat 01 Limited Edition
Breitling Navitimer 01 46mm

On the difference between a Fortis and Breitling the following is good info, which seems to have been left out of the above discussion.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15774&hilit=ebauche

Also back on point the following is a really good opinion on Rolex vs Omega.

http://www.luxurytyme.com/movement/

It clearly shows that Rolex are continually improving and striving for perfection, but the reality is (for me at least) that difference is negligible in the real world - perfection was cracked a while back. That's not to say that someday i'd like to own a watch that has no perceivable winding mechanism, increased reserve, or like the B01 guaranteed chronograph reset and instant date update at midnight whilst still performing at COSC standard or even better.