The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Hi,

My father recently gave me his Breitling Navitimer 806. Unfortunately, I do not have any pictures at this time to post on the site. The thing that is different about the one I have is that the logo on the face (upper-middle) of the watch is a cursive 'B' as opposed to the plane or AOPA Wings. I know he purchased it in the 1960s, but I haven't seen one with the 'B' instead of the plane or wings. Obviously I cannot ask anyone to verify the authenticity of my watch, since I have no pictures, but can someone please clarify whether or not they've seen a Navitimer 806 with the cursive 'B' logo before? I took the watch in to get serviced about two months ago and there weren't any problems and I received many compliments on it, so I'm assuming that it's authentic, but again, I just wanted to know more about the logo on my particular watch. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks a lot!

- Andrew


OK -- I posted that message a few months ago. I am now home and have taken a number of pictures for the experts to take a look at. I still don't have the serial number as I do not feel comfortable taking the case off the back. Please email me at andruw000@yahoo.com so I can email the pictures. I hope the rest of the pictures help. Oh, and my dad believes he received the watch in either 1965 or 1966 (though it could have been purchased before then).

Thanks for your help!

And now the pictures...















Thanks again!

This is not the Navitimer that I was thinking of with the B. I need to do some more research.

Ok -- I really appreciate anything you can find as I've never seen another one like this.

This one's frustrating!

I can find Chronomatics with the B, and I can find AVIs / co-pilots with the B, but finding the 806 with a B is proving to be a lot more challenging. Clearly from the paperwork this is for the North American market, but that's no reason for the difference - the picture on the manual isn't particularly meaningful, because that also shows a first generation Navi.

That means we have to consider the possibility that this is a replacement dial with the Breitling logo added later. Assuming that the slide rule marks are red and not the yellow that they appear to be in the photos then it's actually a very good looking dial. That means that if the dial is a replacement then it's likely from the 1978 bankruptcy and was taken from the Sinn or Ollech & Wajs stock. The problem that I have with that is that this is a small subdial version, indicating that the dial is earlier than the late 1970s period, so that doesn't work either.

So if this isn't real the final option is that it's a complete fake dial - inconsistent with the fact that you have history of the watch back to the first purchase. Let's explore that for a minute though, because there are a couple of things that bother me about the logo.

The photos aren't great, but it does look as though the bottom loop of the B is touching the upright back of the B, if so then it is wrong. There should be a gap. There should also be a spot of black in the middle of the loops of the B and I'm not sure that there is - though that could be the picture. Look at the caseback and you'll see what I mean.

Finally it looks as though the accent on the second E in Geneve is acute (bottom left to top right) whereas it should be grave (top left to bottom right). If any of those are true then we definitely have a problem with this dial, but I just don't get why that would have been done, because the rest of the dial looks very good, as do the hands.

I'm not prepared to say that this watch is wrong, especially with the history, I just can't prove that it's right. If you can provide a sharp picture of the logo I can likely confirm whether that is correct or not, though it doesn't explain what it's doing on this watch.

Bumping this...I noticed this auction on the Bay with what looks like a similar dial to mine above. Is this a legit dial?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BREITLING-806-N ... 7675.l2557

Does anyone else have any information on this dial? I corresponded with a member on this forum and he believes my dial is real and from somewhere between 1964 - 1968. My serial number puts it at 1967. He also showed me a Navitimer advertisement from Hong Kong that has the "B" logo on the dial as well.

Thank you again, Breitling experts

Edit: I also found out that about one year after my Dad bought this watch, he accidentally jumped into a pool wearing it. As a result, he sent it to Breitling/Wakmann in New York to have it serviced. I wonder if this could might be a replacement dial? Could that explain why it's different from the usual dial?

well, the watch on the ad shows a logo used on non-AOPA Breitlings that were sold outside of the US, but the "B" is clearly differently formed; similar to some examples you find in Kurt Broendums article, one example there is a non-AOPA from 1956, another an early 60s piece w/ non-AOPA wings logo from 1963, have a look here.
http://kurt-b.com/

The lume on your dial looks quite different, as does the - surprisingly - for the lack of a better word, clumsy script "B"; my bet would be this is a mid 70ish service dial, the story about the jump into the pool makes this even more logical - can we approximately date that dive ?

Thank you for the reply, Fred. Kurt is actually the person that authenticated my dial for me and sent me that advertisement. Although he placed my dial between 64-68. I spoke with my dad again and he still believes the pool accident was either 1969 or 1970. The movement is the Venus 178 and my serial numbers place it in 1967 -- I just wish there were more examples of my particular dial. Even if it is a service dial, you'd think there would be at least a few examples available on the internet.

I've had the watch authenticated by a couple of different vintage watch repair shops, but none have been able to explain my dial -- they just told me some dials appeared with the "B". That said, I trust the members on this forum more as it's dedicated solely to Breitling.

Not only is your watch 100% original, it is also extremely rare, and the dial seems to be in exceptionel good condition.

Booklet and Wakmann strap is also original.

Your watch is actually one of the very few versions I currently do not hold in my collection (because I until now have not managed to find one is good condition), so please do not hesitate to contact me if you ever consider selling it.

/ Kurt B

I agree with Fred and Roff on this one. If this were any other vintage Breitling we would be talking about the differences in the script and especially how much a brighter white it is than other areas of the dial. Since it has a known history I would agree that it's some sort of replacement dial and the B script was added during the service work to match the original dial. Perhaps they didn't have the proper dial on hand and 'adapted' another Navitimer dial to work. 100% authentic probably (if the service work was done by Breitling) but 100% correct I'm not so sure.

Well, don't worry lessthanzero, I happen to know what I'm talking about.

/ Kurt B

Kurt, we do respect your expertise and do not doubt you know what you are talking about;
this is not a contest, but collectors respectfully trying to learn from each other.

Do you happen to know which markets these dials were issued for, the script "B" logo does appear
a bit off compared to the hundreds of others I have personally seen; not all on Navitimers, my
scope happens to be a bit wider; but dozens of watches from the same period I am comparing this to ?

Thank you for your replies, guys. I will try and take some clearer pictures tonight and post them up.

The service work after the pool incident was indeed done by Breitling/Wakmann in New York. Also, perhaps the dial is in such good shape because my dad only wore it for about 8-10 years. He purchased a two-tone sub in the late-70s and the Navitimer sat in a drawer for the next 30 years or so. It was fully serviced in 2008, though, and keeps excellent time now.

I have the utmost respect for Paul and Fred's opinion as well as Kurt's. My opinion hasn't changed in the years since this first came up and would love to know the evidence that causes Kurt to declare that the rest of us don't know what we are talking about - I love to learn new things and it would help me to be more informed going forward.

lessthanzero - thanks for resurrecting this and allowing us to debate further!

Andy, according to my conversations with A.Wajs , P. Wyss , J. Zurbuchen, none of them supplied Breitling spare dials . As A. Wajs told me, he was not allowed to use the Breitling brand, so he used neutral backs, crowns, and new dials . The B dials had a cleaning and reprint .
For this reason it is virtually impossible to find some of the late Navi dials from the B factory stock . I have been really lucky to get my 806-36 all black dial dial from Wajs , he only had 2 dials escaped from reprint as they were sorted in a wrong box .
My opinion is that only aftersales dials survived to Breitling bankruptcy for all versions pursued by Sinn, Wajs and alii.

Saabreit -- I read over your comment several times and I can't figure out what effect, if any, this has on my dial? Are the B dials you are referring to the dials with the "B" logo? Or is that just short for Breitling?

- Andrew