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Hi, just wondering what the characteristics of a first Scott Carpenter Cosmo would be.

Must it have all of these attributes?

1)24 hrs markers
2)No Breitling/Cosmonaute marking on dial, only applied 18K AOPA logo or can it also have the Breitling/Cosmonaute marrking too?
3) Beads of rice wide bezel
4)Black dial or can it also have the white sub dials? (Kurt's article mentions "All black AOPA Cosmonaute from 1962, the year it was born. My Holy Grail and the rarest of all Navitimers.", not sure if only the black dial or the white sub dial 62 ones too are called Scott Carpenters.
5) All from 1962

Any more attributes? I also found an old Breitling ad here so looks like the same all black one in Kurts article that's reserved the title of being a Scott Carpenter?

Given that there's no such thing as a '1st generation Scott Carpenter' in generally accepted Breitling lore that's really only a question that can be answered by whoever coined the term.

When we talk about 1st generation Navitimers then everyone knows what we are talking about (pretty much) because it's generally accepted terminology, but that's notthe case here.

I understand what Cruvon means

1st generation Navitimer 809

to me that means : all black , cosmonaute & navitimer on the dial , wide bezel , 24hr dial , and modified V178 movement w/ 24hr gear
the wide bezel might be a discussion point ? but the '62's I have seen and handled had the wide bezel
something like this :

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"I spent most of my money on Booze, Breitling and Boats. The rest I wasted" - mostly Elmore Leonard

Thanks Roff, Rene. I guess I mean the Scott Carpenter verion instead of first gen Scott Carpenter:). Any idea if the all black dial cosmo came first serially and the white subdialed version was released simultaneously or later? This is quite confusing unlike with the 806's.

I have done som "research" here, since this is something that interests me too. You'll find it in a lengthy article on my blog about the Cosmonaute and the Mercury Space Program. At the end of it there's a list of sites that you may find interesting. Unfortunately the article is in Norwegian, but here's a short summary:

The all black 24 hr version was the one Carpenter used when travelling in the Aurora-capsule 24 May 1962. But this was a prototype supplied by Breitling and was lost after the mission. It was submerged in water and was sent to Breitling for repairs. It was never returned and never found. As such it is a proper "grail".

Here's a somewhat bad picture of Carpenter with the watch inside the capsule:



Since it was a prototype I would assume that the only "Carpenter version" would be Carpenter's personal piece. And that one is lost, unfortunately. So if you want at piece as close as possible to Carpenter's, I would guess you should go for the all-black version from 1962, i.e. 1st generation 24hr Cosmonaute, with Navitimer reference 806 and not 809. The first Cosmonautes weren't called Cosmonautes and they had ref. 806. Personally, I opt for the transitional model from 1962/63 with white sub-dials and beaded bezel:



This is a rare one, but personally I like this configuration better than the original all black one. Well, matter of taste.

I would guess the white sub-dialed ones came after the black ones, as illustrated by this model. But as always with vintage Breitlings you can never be sure, since we are talking separation by months and not years...

Hope this helps!

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My vintage watch blog: http://thatwatchandmore.blogspot.no/

Instagram: @Oortcloud

Thanks for the info and welcome, nice to have you here to share with us, very interesting! Is that your watch? Awesome!
Had also read somewhere (could be in your blog) that that pic of Scott Carpenter wearing it might actually be a Photoshopped watch so wasn't sure if he actually wore a black dialled one.

No, unfortunately that is not my watch, but the one I'm looking for.

I didn't know there were roumors of a photoshopping. Interesting! Well, since the prototype is lost, guess we'll never know. But the way I see it, given the story from Carpenter himself and the development of the transitional model, he most likely wore an all-black one.

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My vintage watch blog: http://thatwatchandmore.blogspot.no/

Instagram: @Oortcloud

There was never a reference 809 24 hour Navitimer / Cosmonaute, please show me proof for what you Claim . . . ! ! !
And please don't refer to Alan Trott's article, he found that picture on the internet, nobody ever saw the caseback

/ Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com

My 1962 Cosmonaute has 809 on the back , and has both Cosmonaute & navitimer on the dial
or isnt that what you mean Kurt ?

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"I spent most of my money on Booze, Breitling and Boats. The rest I wasted" - mostly Elmore Leonard

I’m on holiday, with limited internet access, and apparently limited access to my brain as well, what I meant to write is.: There was never a reference 806 24 hour Navitimer / Cosmonaute.

Sorry for the confusion I must have made, I'll punish myself by by climbing 9 km upwards on my Cervélo carbon race bike right away


/ Kurt B

thanks Kurt, you had us a little confused here. enjoy your holiday and don't overdo the biking !

Really dont know , ive seen less than a handfull all blacks but serial numbers that I have knowledge about indicate :

oldest (may '62 to somewhere '62, assuming general availability after Scott C. returned safely ): all black w/ wide beads bezel

somewhere '62 to somewhere '63
in between : all black normal beads bezel
in between : white subdials wide beads bezel

somewhere '63 till beads bezel production end
youngest : white subdials normal beads bezel

I am hoping that at one point Kurt will post his serial numbers , or indicate 1st 4 digits of each piece, as it will help putting them in order , if there is an order to this madness

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"I spent most of my money on Booze, Breitling and Boats. The rest I wasted" - mostly Elmore Leonard

Well, that was quite accusational...

First I am not CLAIMING, I am REFERRING to information I have found on the internet and LEARNING as I go along. Please be patient with people less knowledgeable than yourself.

Now, for the case at hand: I didn't know about the picture of the 806/809 and will update my blog with the information you gave me here. Thanks! Also, your site is amazing, I have it book-marked for further reference and I will refer to it in my Cosmonaute article on my blog.

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My vintage watch blog: http://thatwatchandmore.blogspot.no/

Instagram: @Oortcloud

Btw just incase you haven't noticed, Kurt clarified the above as