The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Hello,

Read several posts on the forum after buying the watch below and that made me so to say less enthousiast about my last aquisition. A year ago I bought via ebay my first vintage watch (Seiko 6309) and all went very well. I saved up during the last months and decided to go for my second vintage and 'hunt' for a vintage breitling, after a few weeks of bidding pleasure and not winning the item. Last weekend I finally won.... Well after reading through the forum that might be not surprising......

Below you see the watch I won. The desciption was:

VERY NICE CHRONOGRAPH BREITLING DATE VALJOUX 7734 insigned MOVEMENT CIRCA 1970 SIZE 38MM42,8MM CHROME CASE STEEL BACK (GLASS NEEDS TO CHANGE it presents a damage).
There is not signed the bringe movement but this caliber is used frequently for breitlling in this period Original Dial Breitlilng with date in excellent condition no damage. Nice working condition but we do not assure its accuracy.

Upfront I read the feedback on the seller and all was positive and already sold 10's of other vintage watches. However after reading through to forum I discovered thee were also 'Franken' Breitlings... Well... Now I think I acquired one of these. Below a nr of pictures from the seller.

What do you think of it? Fake, franken or.....

Thanks for the feedback

sorry, but you knew the answer, fake, total fabrication.
had this on my vintagejunk watchlist some days ago I think, as this was a recent purchase, contact the seller, I am sure he will agree to take it back and refund, if not, you could open a paypal case, will take a bit longer, but you'll win that.

I'm sorry, but I think that this is an outright fake.

For the era that this is claiming to be the dial should be block letters rather than script, the bridge should be signed and there should be model and serial numbers on the caseback. While there is a serial number it is inconsistent with any real Breitling of this period.

Sorry that it's not better news.

Thanks for the quick feedback. Well I hoped at least for a franken.....

Contacting Paypal would be the best thing to do now. Do I have to prove it is fake? If so what should I do, go to a Breitling dealer or should I just say why it is fake?

deleted this from my junklist, can you post a link to the listing, please ?

Doubt you have to prove is fake, others here will advice too. Just raise an issue with eBay and tell them you have found out is fake. They will most prob ask you to send the watch back to the seller for a refund. Also if you bought in the US and used paypal vial credit card, the credit card company too would refund I hear for fakes, check around.

found it http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHRONOGRAPH-BRE ... _980wt_999

again, my advice is to contact the seller, inform him the watch is clearly fake.
Wrong logo for claimed period
No documented Breitling model
No model reference
No correct serial number

Am sure seller will cave in, if not, open a paypal case assuming you used paypal.

Is a PayPal case preferable to an ebay case? I gather they are two mutually exclusive processes.

This was once a nice watch. On an ancillary note, the quality of the script "Breitling" on the dial is scary good, which is why I suspect it's also being added to some older and worn dials, too.

frighteningly so. seems to be a master faker in Spain, look at this:



http://www.ebay.com/itm/270875678657?ru ... _910wt_999

could be the same seller, text passages in the listing are very similar.

am sure he will be more than happy to refund, just to make sure his feedback is unhurt, selling quite a lot.

First of all I like to thank all of you for your replies and advice.

Overnight I had contact with the seller who agreed to take it back

Soon I will be hunting for another (all original) vintage piece, with my early learnings this probably ging to be bit more expesive

2nd UPDATE

The seller told me I have to send the watch back and he will transfer the $$ back into my paypal account. You can understand that I'm a bit hesitant => no watch no refund....

So I called Paypal on this matter, they advised 2 scenario's:

1) The seller pays me back first then I send the watch back => this is a risk for the seller (why should I send it back), I have the $$ back
2) Send an expert rapport to paypal that says it is fake, then I receive the $$ back and cannot send the watch back to the seller => seller has dispute with paypal / does not have the watch

Either way I have the dollars back.... BUT I need to go to a specialist and need a letter to confirm it is fake. Paypal insist they must have some kind of prove. It must be from a specialist. So that can be either one of you or a Breitling dealer.

I highly doubt that they will accept members of the forum as recognized experts - if they did then this thread should be sufficient. The problem with ADs is that they know nothing about vintage pieces (Breitling was a different company then) so not sure who they are looking for. Someone like Mark Heist at Horological Services in PA would be accepted but that's goign to be a lengthy wait.

At the end of the day you have done nothing wrong so the seller should assume the risk rather than you - he's the fake peddler.

ideally the seller will agree, but I doubt this, a thankfully now inactive forum member made sure of this by defrauding many of those sellers in similar situations.

this might only be me, but I would ship the item by registered, trackable mail, have a witness with you when you wrap it, take a pic of the closed package.
mail copies of both the pic and the shipping receipt to the seller over the ebay messages.

you can still open a dispute should he refuse to return the money and, of course, your threat of negative feedback is still valid.

might there be a theoretic risk: yes, but quite minimal. you definitely save quite a lot of time if you do not have to communicate these things through paypal
would not do that with a very high amount, but in this case this would be my suggestion.

if you decide to go the "expert certification" way pm me for suggestions, have been in this situation before, both the "trust the seller" and the paypal way.

Looks like you have some experience.... Anyway thanks for the help I will keep it in mind if what the seller suggest is not working.

Perhaps others can learn from my mistake so let me continue my story...

For now the Seller seems to agree with me (at least he tells me in his emails) and suggest that I open a claim in ebay so my case is covered. I looked for it but when you choose for solving a problem with the seller you immediatly are directed to PayPal. Am I doing something wrong?

I have never sold something via ebay however the seller tells me that he already admitted (?) in the ebay system (PayPal?) and accepts my complaint (which I have not raised yet). So I will need to send the watch back and he is going to return my $$ AND while this process is running ebay retains his $$ until this is solved (perhaps he means paypal?).

Anyone any experience with what he is saying?