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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:27 am 
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I am sorry people, I added my quote to Dracha's by mistake. Read just after he remarks 'strange...'
Again my fault. Blackjack anyone? Ha


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:31 am 
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Dracha wrote:
But Roff , surely Mr Heist would have mounted it correctly if he could or even fitted new feet on the dial ?
For me the Heist visit is what makes this misalignment of the bezel so hard to explain ?


Hey Dracha, Mark metioned replacing the bezel in my maintenance documents and I chose not to have it replaced. It is a defect - It's as simple as that. Most things in this world are inperfect and more inperfect could be considered a defect in my opinion. How many can openers have we bought over the years?? Ha.
someone else Please find another with the defect like the 2 I have posted.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:42 am 
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fudda wrote:
Roffensian wrote:
The image that Fudda posted at the bottom of page 5 as the other one that he found (the one without Geneva on the dial) is ripped off from Jean-Michel's site - http://www.lesmala.net/jean-michel/navitimer/index2.htm (Collectors, Vintage Page 2)

Ripped Off?? Man take it down a notch. So now anyting on another site is bogus. I considered you well respected in the confines of this forum site. Not anymore.



Did I miss where you credited Jean-Michel, I just read that it was one that you "found".

I don't recall suggesting that Jean-Michel's site was bogus - on the contrary. Becoming less and less convinced about some others though..........


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:53 am 
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Associated documentation. If you cannot enlarge them here and would like better resolution or scale - let me know and I will redo them.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:56 am 
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Roffensian wrote:
fudda wrote:
Roffensian wrote:
The image that Fudda posted at the bottom of page 5 as the other one that he found (the one without Geneva on the dial) is ripped off from Jean-Michel's site - http://www.lesmala.net/jean-michel/navitimer/index2.htm (Collectors, Vintage Page 2)

Ripped Off?? Man take it down a notch. So now anyting on another site is bogus. I considered you well respected in the confines of this forum site. Not anymore.



Did I miss where you credited Jean-Michel, I just read that it was one that you "found".

I don't recall suggesting that Jean-Michel's site was bogus - on the contrary. Becoming less and less convinced about some others though..........


Credits? Quoting correctly without permission? I am just a man with a watch. How about some respect on this side for showing everyone the manufacturing defect that apparently no one had seen before or confirmed before? Man...you amaze me. Now your just getting us sidetracked over the piddly _hit - stuff, sorry.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:00 am 
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Dracha wrote:
Roffensian wrote:
That's a lot of claims. Sources please?


+1 !

sources to substantiate these claims would definately be a tremendous help in Breitling community as a whole and will expand my knowledge in particular and your name will forever be remembered and carved in stone Fudda !


Well I have substatiated the
Quote:
amazing rotating bezel defect
let's see you UNsubstantiate that. If someone wants to list in detail all of the manufacturing and marketing facts for 53 post it and end this discussion. Otherwise let's stick to investingating watches.
Later people - fudd :strummin:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:01 am 
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fudda wrote:
Credits? Quoting correctly without permission? I am just a man with a watch. How about some respect on this side for showing everyone the manufacturing defect that apparently no one had seen before or confirmed before? Man...you amaze me. Now your just getting us sidetracked over the piddly _hit - stuff, sorry.


and we keep feeding the Image


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:02 am 
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Bill in Sacramento wrote:
It is very apparent that Fudda has fallen into the avaricious hole of just making stuff up as part of a sale pitch. That is consistent with his abuse of our collegiality in his original eBay posting and his overall web-assault. He's no wolf in sheep's clothing. He's more of a wolf in dingo's clothing.

As to the image you posted, Rene, I note that the dial excludes the "Geneve" below "Breitling." That strikes me odd, as I would expect all models of AVI to have the post-move dial. I'm trying to think of an example of a Navitimer dial showing the "B Breitling" without the "Geneve." I'm wondering if that's consistent with my hunch that the bezel is perfectly aligned, but that the dial has been replaced unevenly. In other words, isn't it the case that the misaligned bezels correspond to observed irregularities in the dial, too?

[You're right, Roff. That's a fudda post. Sorry, Rene.]


Again Bill, see these Two(2) watches?? Anything look familiar...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:04 am 
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fudda wrote:
Bill in Sacramento wrote:
It is very apparent that Fudda has fallen into the avaricious hole of just making stuff up as part of a sale pitch. That is consistent with his abuse of our collegiality in his original eBay posting and his overall web-assault. He's no wolf in sheep's clothing. He's more of a wolf in dingo's clothing.

As to the image you posted, Rene, I note that the dial excludes the "Geneve" below "Breitling." That strikes me odd, as I would expect all models of AVI to have the post-move dial. I'm trying to think of an example of a Navitimer dial showing the "B Breitling" without the "Geneve." I'm wondering if that's consistent with my hunch that the bezel is perfectly aligned, but that the dial has been replaced unevenly. In other words, isn't it the case that the misaligned bezels correspond to observed irregularities in the dial, too?

[You're right, Roff. That's a fudda post. Sorry, Rene.]


Again Bill, see these Two(2) watches?? Anything look familiar...
Which piece of Breitling history seen here would you purchase if you were so inclined??
"Waiter...check please..."


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:06 am 
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WatchFred wrote:
fudda wrote:
Credits? Quoting correctly without permission? I am just a man with a watch. How about some respect on this side for showing everyone the manufacturing defect that apparently no one had seen before or confirmed before? Man...you amaze me. Now your just getting us sidetracked over the piddly _hit - stuff, sorry.


and we keep feeding the Image

You are not feeding or contributing too much here watchfred. Except for the cool dungeons and dragons stuff. Watches..Watches..Watches please


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:08 am 
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WatchFred wrote:
and we keep feeding the Image



Yeah, you're right Fred.

This whole thing is getting ridiculously silly and apparently now Fudda has to spam post in the thread as well. I'm very tempted to lock the thread as there is clearly going to be very little real facts coming out - just stongly voiced opinions with the logic that if you say it often enough and loud enough it becomes fact.

I'll leave it open for now but will keep a close eye on it, in the meantime expect no more posts from me.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:15 am 
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Roffensian wrote:
WatchFred wrote:
and we keep feeding the Image



Yeah, you're right Fred.

This whole thing is getting ridiculously silly and apparently now Fudda has to spam post in the thread as well. I'm very tempted to lock the thread as there is clearly going to be very little real facts coming out - just stongly voiced opinions with the logic that if you say it often enough and loud enough it becomes fact.

I'll leave it open for now but will keep a close eye on it, in the meantime expect no more posts from me.


Not spamming sir. Bill in Sacramento suggests he is an experts and I just showed that we all have made mistakes discussion this one. Alot of my mistakes had nothing to do with watches. To point out the 1 fact we do know about the 1953 Breitling's.....No one knows.
Each one of us has contributed and whether we like it or not, these 2 defective Breitling's have a place in Breitling history too. Not just the perfect ones or the watches you like. I am through with the forum also and if you want to block any further entries it would not surprise me - we let these discussions get the better of us. :lingsrock:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:16 am 
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I would definately NOT buy the one you own Fudda, and the reasons for that I have stated many times already
the main reason is that in 1953 Breitling produced the AVI with the digital 15 minute counter not with the rotating counter , your watch has had the dial replaced and possibly the movement as its not gilded , so probably a movement from a Breitling other than the AVI / Navitimer range from that era was used as those AVI / NAVI movements were all gilded (the ones I have seen at least)

I will post pics inside and out from a AVI that is close in serial number range later today

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"I spent most of my money on Booze, Breitling and Boats. The rest I wasted" - mostly Elmore Leonard


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:00 am 
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fudda wrote:
Bill in Sacramento wrote:
It is very apparent that Fudda has fallen into the avaricious hole of just making stuff up as part of a sale pitch. That is consistent with his abuse of our collegiality in his original eBay posting and his overall web-assault. He's no wolf in sheep's clothing. He's more of a wolf in dingo's clothing.

As to the image you posted, Rene, I note that the dial excludes the "Geneve" below "Breitling." That strikes me odd, as I would expect all models of AVI to have the post-move dial. I'm trying to think of an example of a Navitimer dial showing the "B Breitling" without the "Geneve." I'm wondering if that's consistent with my hunch that the bezel is perfectly aligned, but that the dial has been replaced unevenly. In other words, isn't it the case that the misaligned bezels correspond to observed irregularities in the dial, too?

[You're right, Roff. That's a fudda post. Sorry, Rene.]

Hey Bill what's up? I guess you are as well informed as the rest of us (mainly myself) but don't you remember stating that until 1955 all US Breitling's were stamped 'BOW'? Maybe you would like to refresh your memory by reading your post#10 http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22291
OK, now take a look at your post on this forum on page 3 I believe - in which you state that the code was changed from 'BOW' to WOG' in 1957?? I was trying to avoid embarassing you, I read this during my research this year and I held on to it, agreeing with you but I guess you are as fallible as I am. Keep cool dingo - just fightin' fire with fire.


You can't embarrass me, I'm fully able to do that myself. In discussions with other collectors and watchmakers, I had it down that the change to "WOG" occurred sometime in 1955. It does seem that the change took place sometime in 1957. We're still looking for documentation or reports of what arrangement was made and the disposition of the US Breitling company. Someone will have to search paper records, I'm afraid.

I don't think I can be as fallible as you, but I think I can be funnier.


Last edited by Bill in Sacramento on Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:10 am 
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Dracha wrote:
I would definately NOT buy the one you own Fudda, and the reasons for that I have stated many times already
the main reason is that in 1953 Breitling produced the AVI with the digital 15 minute counter not with the rotating counter , your watch has had the dial replaced and possibly the movement as its not gilded , so probably a movement from a Breitling other than the AVI / Navitimer range from that era was used as those AVI / NAVI movements were all gilded (the ones I have seen at least)

I will post pics inside and out from a AVI that is close in serial number range later today


Well Dracha of course that is what you would say but still no concrete undisputable facts and there should be some -Breitling Manufacturing information or whatever. I am not going to dive into a picture for picture battle now either - interested individuals will need to research a little themselves. But, agreed there isn't much -hence the debate. Don't know what the jury would say, but the Defense rests. I just do not have anymore to present about this chronograph.
It has been a lengthy discussion and we all have gained some knowledge, either with the two shown earlier with defects, or ruling this or that out, or just learning more about Breitling during 1953. In the end I am happy to have been your guest here. Can we let it be for now?
Signing off...
Phil


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