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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:42 am 
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Bought some watches from a collector in Germany who inherited (yes, really) quite a nice selection of vintage Breitlings from his father and is now moving away from these towards other brands and complications.

The watches I have received were in impeccable condition and we are now talking about some more of his treasures. The seller has known these watches for more than 30 years and I trust his word that they have never been tampered with, so I was a little surprised to see this Top Time dial on a 1969 ref. 2010, that should be marked "Sprint" ?

Any ideas ?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:25 pm 
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Hmm... so I checked the 69' catalog scans too and you're right... it looks like it SHOULD have Sprint written on it, but definitely this piece looks like it hasn't been tampered with... if it's been then that's a damn good redial... it's even got the Sprint bezel and the reference number too IIRC...

perhaps Paul or Roff can chime in on this...

By the way that caseback is super sharp!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:40 pm 
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Spent some time looking into it which is why I didn't reply earlier, and frankly I have no clue. Nothing at all suspicious about any of it - without the provenance we would be nervous of condition, but we know history so that's not a concern. It's downright weird - factory eroor maybe :huh


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:32 am 
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if they havent been tampered with , why are the pushers 'incorrectly' assembled ?
looks like they both are too long and not screwed in properly into the case ?

no critique , just a question

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:56 am 
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Looks like the pusher caps have just slightly backed off. I can't imagine any legitimate scenario that would put a Top Time dial on a 2010 case from the factory.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:20 am 
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Thank you all for your comments, sadly I am with Paul that there is no legitimate reason I can think of how the TT dial could have been factory original.

The only - rather theoretic - explanation would be that the 60/70s collector (who must have been quite a good customer, nice and big collection) liked the TT more than the 2010-specific dials with the red accented subdials and massive batons and had his AD (ex-factory?) install a 2002/3 dial ?

Although I think the pushers are ok and only slipped out a little and despite the supersharp back, I´m afraid I will have to pass on this one.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:23 am 
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I have as a working hypothesis that after company closed and was liquidated (please don't refer to it as a bankruptcy), one of the buyers of the remaining store of parts, etc. (maybe Sinn, maybe Wais, maybe someone else) assembled the parts they had into as many finished watches as they could make fit and put them on the market. When new, they had a clear plastic sticker on the back with one red edge.

There would be nothing to prevent someone from using the remaining parts this way. I wonder if that's the source for so many Top Time dials in Co-Pilot cases. Some one made up quite of few of those, but no real Top Time came with a rotating bezel.


Last edited by Bill in Sacramento on Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:47 am 
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Bill in Sacramento wrote:
I have as a working hypothesis that after company closed and was liquidated (please don't refer to it as a bankruptcy), one of the buyers of the remaining store of parts, etc. (maybe Sinn, maybe Wais, maybe someone else) assembled the parts they had into as many finished watches as they could make fit and put them on the market. When new, they has a clear plastic sticker on the back with a red stripe on the side.

There would be nothing to prevent someone from using the remaining parts this way. I wonder if that's the source for so many Top Time dials in Co-Pilot cases. Some one made up quite of few of those, but no real Top Time came with a rotating bezel.


Unfortunately Bill, those kind of assumptions often give fakers all the incentive they need to put this stuff together and say the same thing. I still would shy away from anything not fully documented that that was the case.

Paul


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:53 am 
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vintage wrote:
Bill in Sacramento wrote:
I have as a working hypothesis that after company closed and was liquidated (please don't refer to it as a bankruptcy), one of the buyers of the remaining store of parts, etc. (maybe Sinn, maybe Wais, maybe someone else) assembled the parts they had into as many finished watches as they could make fit and put them on the market. When new, they had a clear plastic sticker on the back with one red edge.

There would be nothing to prevent someone from using the remaining parts this way. I wonder if that's the source for so many Top Time dials in Co-Pilot cases. Some one made up quite of few of those, but no real Top Time came with a rotating bezel.


Unfortunately Bill, those kind of assumptions often give fakers all the incentive they need to put this stuff together and say the same thing. I still would shy away from anything not fully documented that that was the case.

Paul


Sorry, Paul. I didn't mean to suggest it is authentic. I was trying to offer a possible explanation.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:59 pm 
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vintage wrote:
Looks like the pusher caps have just slightly backed off. I can't imagine any legitimate scenario that would put a Top Time dial on a 2010 case from the factory.


What I meant is , the case back is immaculate , seems never to have seen a wrist
as its this new and immaculate and the watch has hardly been worn so there's absolutely no reason for the pushers to 'slightly back off' , which is a issue you see with hard worn chrono's that will slowly back back off over the cause of many years of wear

hence my conclusion : someone did not take the time to install these properly ie. someone worked on this watch and it wasnt Breitling and that might point to a questionable origin ?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:52 am 
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Dracha wrote:
vintage wrote:
Looks like the pusher caps have just slightly backed off. I can't imagine any legitimate scenario that would put a Top Time dial on a 2010 case from the factory.


What I meant is , the case back is immaculate , seems never to have seen a wrist
as its this new and immaculate and the watch has hardly been worn so there's absolutely no reason for the pushers to 'slightly back off' , which is a issue you see with hard worn chrono's that will slowly back back off over the cause of many years of wear

hence my conclusion : someone did not take the time to install these properly ie. someone worked on this watch and it wasnt Breitling and that might point to a questionable origin ?

Dracha, you definitely have a valid point here with the pushers, too much does not add up with this one.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:12 am 
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It does not look like factory finish to me, I’m certain that the entire case have been polished.


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