The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Do you mean it was a counterfeit check? I didn't think cashiers' checks could be bad, because they're issued by banks on their own funds.

A totally separate company - like Joe Schmo shipping insurance inc.

As we know I don't sell, but I've bought some pieces from a guy in the US who uses a firm that covers him for 100% of all his value - and he has some very high end pieces that he ships all over the world.

Yeah but, ultimately, don't they turn against their client? So, the check is blocked if there are no funds to cover it, even after being issued. Just a question because I'm not familiar with the process.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

Yes. IF you want to be safe - (1) bank wire and wait to ship until funds go from "pending but available " to actually posting to your account, (2) accept a cashier's check but do not ship until funds go from pending to fully posted to your account(the funds are not really there and safe until it has cleared the issuing bank EVEN IF your bank gives you immediate access to them), or (3) accept pp but do not ship until the funds are fully transferred from your pp account to your bank account, (4) use a UPS Store(formerly Mailboxes Etc) and have them pack it for you($10). UPS requires UPS Store verify that the item is there to honor insurance claims, and (5) sell to a buyer with references.

If you do those things there isn't much to worry about. The stuff we have been talking about on this thread happens, but is quite rare. Just following some prudent rules takes the risk to near zero.

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SHARKMAN

I'm far from an expert on this, but my understanding is a cashier's check is a bank check issued on their own funds. If you ask your bank to issue a cashier's check for you, they take the money from your account before writing the check. At that point, your funds are their funds; you actually don't have access to them anymore. So, if you're accepting a cashier's check as payment, you're taking the bank's word that the check is good, rather then the buyer's word that his own personal check is good.

Thanks, Tom. Good advice.

A cashier's check, even a real one, is just a check with the good Housekeeping Seal of Approval on it. Sure, the issuing bank immediately debits the payees account, but nothing is 100%. The bank could issue the check and then notice they missed an existing IRS tax levy on the account and the bank would not honor the check.

It's pretty simple, take care of what you can control and there isn't anything to worry about. We could all get blotted out by a massive asteroid strike tonight. That doesn't mean I am sitting up all night with Rosary beads.

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SHARKMAN

So, if I understand this correctly, should something goes wrong, it's the bank's problem, or one between the buyer and its bank, thus not involving the seller.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

Ah yes, I forgot about the IRS....damn them! But seriously, I learn something every day on this site. Thanks again.


Like I said, I'm not an expert, and Tom just showed me the holes in my understanding. Good thing, too, or else I might have wound up a victim of my own ignorance.

Sorry Tom your post just crossed mine.

So, best thing to do is have the amount on your account before sending the item.

But even then, if the check is not covered by the buyer, the bank will claim the amount from the seller anyway.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

The law on negotiable instruments is insanely comlpex, gives me headaches, and thus I stay away from it. As a seller, I would give no more leeway to the deposit of a cashier's check in my account than a personal one. ONCE IT POSTS fully - not pending and available or pending and not included in my balance - then you are fine. What I and others don't want, is to have the funds tied up in a banking or pp dispute even if we ultimately get them.

I have an account that is JUST for watch sales. The moment the money hits that account (reflected in my available balance, pending or not), it is electronically transferred to another account. I never keep more than $100 in that account for more than minutes. Literally. Nothing ships until nothing is pending unless I know the buyer. There is one more step in the process, but it is my secret (there just may be a fella named Guido involved, but I'm not sayin'). NO ONE can tie up my funds on a watch sale. PP can hit me with a negative balance, but the money is out of there reach until the imagined dispute is resolved. In the meantime, I have the funds.

And despite all this CIA-like cloak and dagger junk, I have yet to have an issue on a sale.

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SHARKMAN

Yeah, I leave all the high-end financial and transactional stuff to the guys with computers in their crania. I prefer the criminal side of law - simple, dirty, and fascinating.

True, banks play with our funds too much for my liking.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

Thats not the way the scammers do it. If you give them your wire info, they can walk into your bank and deposit a bad check into your account. Since you were expecting a wire, you check your transaction history and see a deposit of the correct amount. Unfortunately, you dont realize that this was NOT a wire. After a couple of days, the bank finds out the check is bad, and reverses the transaction. Buyer has his watch, and you have no money.

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-RJ

I'm guessing, though, if we follow Tom's advice and double-check with the bank to make sure the funds are actually there, we should be safe.