The Breitling Watch Source Forums

I know this is another "price rise" thread, but the more I've been reading and considering about the current and forthcoming price rises, the more it's starting to bother me....... and it's actually given me something of a wake up call.

It's very VERY easy when you're immersed in this hobby of ours not to notice how the price you are prepared to justify for a watch starts creeping up and up. The reason this particularly dawned on me was because last night I was chatting to a mate of mine who used to be really into watches but has dropped off the scene in recent years primarily due to other financial commitments. He used to be really into Omega (and also *shudder* Tag), and he just mentioned how he thought that the Omega SMP became overpriced when it breached the £1100 mark! That really took me back to the times when I started to get into watches in a big way, and it made me remember when I was once trying to decide between a quartz SMP, and a Breitling SO..... and both were around the £800 mark. Sure, that was a while ago and those two are entry level models, but when I compare it to the £7440 Chronomat GMT I tried on the other day, it kind of hammered it home that the watches I look at now are almost 10 times the price of the ones I used to look at....... and there is no way my current salary is 10 times was it was back then.

It may sound like a pretty simple thing for even a vaguely educated person to see, but it's very easy to be able to rationalise spending £5K or £10K or £15K on a watch when you are into a hobby like this on a daily basis. Basically it was a serious reality check. So much so that, as I'm only buying in-house these days, I actually think that unless I have a serious step change in salary (and it's not like I'm exactly on a bad wage now), I honestly think I've probably only got one more Breitling left in me. They are now so expensive that there's no room for watches I "like" : the only watches I can consider now are ones that I truly LOVE. And if the constant price rises go on, I'll soon be little more than a spectator.

With this in mind, I can safely say that I will not be buying another Breitling until a new model comes out that I love. So while I really like the Chronomat LE, the Flying Fish, the Navi 01 and the Transocean Chrono, they aren't quite perfection to my mind, so they're all a no-go for me. I think I'm going to hold out for an in-house "Navitimer World 04", or maybe an in-house Blackbird (depending on the looks of course). At that point, my other Breitlings will all go as I've fallen out of love with the SA and the Bentleys anyway, and there'd be no point keeping a current World if I could get an in-house version, so I'll be a one Breitling man.

It's a really sad state of affairs to be priced out of something I love by nothing more than company greed.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

Well put, very interesting thoughts about pricing in relation to salary. The pricing is getting so steep that this can no longer be a hobby for most of us.

There were some comments yesterday in another thread asking how people could sell their lings when they bought them for a reason? You just said "my other Breitlings will all go as I've fallen out of love with the SA and the Bentleys" That's exactly how I started to feel about my Ling as well. It just happens, some watches just don't any love after time.

When an in-house Bird or World is released the price is going to be staggering based on the current prices of the Chronomat B01 and Navi B01.

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"I don't own any watches, I just lease them"

It may be just another price rise thread, but its somewhat of a popualr topic at the moment and always nice to see views of others located in the UK. Totally agree that being immersed in this hobby allows us to loose check on reality with respect to pricing.

Recent price rises have driven me into the used market. Theres no way I can afford the watches I like, given the current retail prices. The fact I like to trade them on now and again makes the resale value quite important, and given most current Breitlings sell for around half RRP on the used market, theres even less incentive to buy new.

Driver - I agree with many things that you wrote, but the reality is that most of the people who buy these watches are not buying them to support their hobby - they are buying them as functional/reliable timepieces (in the case of an aviator or sailor or diver, etc.), or they are buying them as a status symbol.

I refuse to buy another Breitling at this moment in time because the brand has been diminished with Breitling's gimmicks and chasing of fads like colored bezels and hands. With a lack of in-house movements, I cannot justify paying close to retail for a new Ling, let alone the increases Breitling is trying to get for its new timepieces. I mean, 3 new SuperOcean models within 18 months? Rubber bezels and colored bezels and hands?

If I want a bubble gum watch, I'll buy a Swatch from the 1980s...I'm not dropping $5k+ on a Breitling.

I used to not give Rolex a second thought because I didn't want to be "that guy" who had a rolex like everyone else. The more that I've learned about this "hobby," the more I realized that Rolex has been doing it right all along.

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PAM359, Omega PO Big Size, 1951 Omega Seamaster, Rolex Sea Dweller

In some ways it's a reflection of the success of the industry - it's only about 30 years since the mechanical watch industry was at death's door after the quartz revolution, but the mechanical renaissance that started in the 80s has been so successful that pricing now reflects that success far more than it does economic realities. In addition the continued emergence of new markets and the need for approximately equal global pricing with an international marketplace has made it very easy for companies to push the boundaries of what the market can bear.

I suspect that for Breitling this is even more tempting as they are a single brand as opposed to part of a larger conglomerate where multiple brands (or even multiple lines of business) carry the weight.

For the enthusiast without an unlimited budget this is bad news - brands don't care about who fuelled the mechanical renaissance, they care about how successful it has become and will now price at a point where they can sell everything that they produce for maximum profits, which inevitably means pricing for the high budget consumer whether new to mechanical watches or a die hard WIS.

On the flip side eBay and the internet in general has developed a flourishing secondary market where pricing is much more realistic, but I think that new pieces will continue to increase in price way beyond consumer price indices because there is no sign of market saturation.

We all know that I don't sell pieces so I still have every watch that I bought, but when I consider what I paid and contrast that with what you have to pay now it really is an eye opener as Driver8 suggests.

From an industry standpoint, I'm not sure what the 'entry level luxury' market is going to look like - what kind of money are people going to have to spend in order to acquire a Swiss mechanical watch? Tag still has some value pieces, and then there are brands like Oris and the more niche players like Steinhart (technically Swiss), but the market is considerably smaller than it was a few years ago and that may be bad news for the big names twenty odd years down the road because there won't be a new generation of WIS coming through.

I agree with most of what you said Driver and I too am another that is definitely being priced out of the brand, not necessarily because I can't afford it, more that I won't justify paying around $10K for a Breitling, particularly considering what they cost only 2 or 3 years ago.


While the company greed statement is certainly accurate you can't blame a company for trying to maximise profits, they are a business afterall and a private company at that. It's the broader market that is allowing Breitling to price their pieces accordingly and it is the consumers who will decide at what price point Breitling will be allowed to sell their timepieces. If the market/consumers decide that $10K is too much for a Breitling, then Breitling's sales will decrease and they will have to adjust accordingly. If sales continue despite the increased price point, then there you have it. It's a shame that things have got this way, particularly for something that is not a 'need', but that seems to be the trend in the industry now.

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Happines is Good Health and a Bad Memory.
"Ingrid Bergman"

The price rise trend only works if people will buy at that price point. We'll see how much volume and ultimately profit are affected. What could happen is that those who visualized spending maybe $5K on a first nice new watch will now buy the lower-end Breitlings. For all I know, the new models may suit their tastes just fine. The ship has long sailed in terms of numbers of people buying Breitlings for name and bling factor with no real regard to construction, craftsmanship or the movement inside--if the lower-end still appeals to them, the company may not be so dissuaded from their pricing practices. I have to believe the upper-end sales are down, but Breitling surely had to know that, too.

Our blessing and curse is that a lot of us remember buying $1,200 brand new Omegas and not-that-much more Breitlings within the last 10 or so years. We may slow down but it's on the newbies now. I think that determines the course of the company.

Personally, I'd like to have more in-house movements, but I'm just not going to spend that much more to do it. I still appreciate the craftsmanship and construction of my present Breitlings, Panerai and Rolex. I have no problem with a good ETA movement, I have my Rolex, and suddenly an El Primero is becoming a value proposition. If I want a Navi 01, there's nothing wrong with the used market

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Scott

AP Royal Oak 15400, silver
Zenith Chronomaster El Primero Classic Cars
Vintage gold Corum
Rolex DJ 36 TT, oyster dial, oyster/smooth
Baume & Mercier Riviera 200m, silver dial/aquamarine bezel
Breitling Superocean 57, rose/stainless

Presently international capital flows (what there is of them) are moving to the Middle East, Asis and South America as that is where the greatest potential for return on investment exists. For the last century productive investment has been concentrated in the Eurozone and North America, and those regions currencies were relatively strong versus the above-referenced nations. The balance of power is changing (duh) and the fact of the price increase relative to incomes is a physical manifestation of that phenomenae, although timepieces are end-use goods that themselves reflect higher base input costs (oil, gold, silver etc....).

The point is if your functional currency is dollars, pounds or euros you are hurting right now both in terms of stagnant incomes and higher functional currency prices for basic necessities (which do not include Breitlings). If your functional currency is yuan/renmibi, Austrialian Dollars, Bhat, Won, Indian Rupees etc. you maybe have enjoyed substantial increases to your earnings the past ten or so years and maybe just maybe are now in a position where you can think about purchasing a high end timepiece.

This is a zero-sum game that will produce winners and losers. We in the West have enjoyed the whip hand for a lot of years. I have a hunch that not being able to accumulate high end watches will be the least of our concerns as we learn what it feels like to be on the other end of the rawhide.

As far as design goes, Breitling are clearly marketing to a different demographic, and probabaly orienting their strategy towards regional customer preferences where they believe they'll enjoy the best overall sales. Take from that what you will.

And I for one and done with this brand for awhile. I'm not selling anything but I am moving my attentions towards more refined options such as JLC or Glashutte.

Said this before the last increase and I think still true. The Market decides for the brand price.

However, the brand has decided the brand for me.

Bricks for me

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Al

“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

This new price increase is indeed ridiculous especially that Breitling watches (with the exception of a few popular models) tend to lose their value pretty fast! A buddy of mine who is a long time time huge collector of Breitlings since the early 90s told me he won't be buying anymore.

Breitling couldn't care less about us 1%r's. We don't pay the bills. People who had no clue a SA was $1k less last June do. They see the watch, like it, buy it. They don't get on forums and discuss it, they just wear and more than likely forget the model name. Same with Rolex. The dude who buys a Sub is clueless that it was $6k two years ago..

Seems to me that this brand used to be known for great watches, great styling and except for a few models...a fantastic value.

Time are a changing my friends. They changed the histroric styling on the majority of models to appeal to the hip hop culture and one watch purchasers. From my stand point, the majority of the new model designs have cheapened the brand. They raised prices to Rolex levels and they are not even 100% in house. Resell is a lot lower than Rolex. Breitlings generally don't hold their value very well (at least compared to some other brands). Rollys are at least pretty consistant in their designs. Breitling seems intent on offering 100 different models over a 2-3 year period.

So now, what is there to sway the watch buyer away from similarity priced swiss watches? Not much if you ask me. The only watch from them that I will concider in the future is an in house Blackbird and they will likely muck up the design to the point that I wont like it. Well that and the likely $11,000 MSRP!

I love the ones I have, but future watches will likely be a different brand......

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Breitling Steelfish(black)
Breitling Steelfish(silver)
Panerai PAM 312
Bell & Ross BR03-92 Phantom
Steinhart BreitlingSource LE #5/15

I've been reading quite a bit lately about people complaining about "company greed" and I just don't get it. Most businesses are started so someone can make money - not to offer products or services to squeak out a living. I've owned companies in the past and you can be damn sure I'd be trying to get every dime possible from the marketplace.

I don't mean to derail this thread, but if Breitling has made these ridiculous changes over the past few years combined with unsubstantiated price increases, and if we're all right, then it will be reflected in their profits. If their profits go up, then obviously someone made a calculated decision and just because all of us "enthusiasts" don't like the decision they made, well, it really means nothing.

Whether someone is trying to line their pockets with gold at Breitling HQ means nothing to me. My BlackBird was my first "grown up" watch that led to my obsession with this "hobby." I bought a Ling because I wanted a "different" quality timepiece and not be the same douche who bought a Rolex as a status symbol. My biggest disappointment is with the brand because of its gimmicky approach over the last few years which has cheapened the brand in my eyes - if that's due to someone's "greed" at HQ, so be it.

My money follows quality - not fads.

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PAM359, Omega PO Big Size, 1951 Omega Seamaster, Rolex Sea Dweller

That's a very good point D8. It wasn't too many years ago I was looking at a Quartz Bond Seamaster for about $1,500 and trying to justify it to myself. I would never have guessed how much of my income I would be channelling into watches within a pretty short space of time!

Well I still own a company, and I completely disagree. I leave money on the table at every single one of my clients because I recognise the importance of a long term relationship, and the benefits that brings. I may make less than I could on a daily basis for each contract that I have, but it results in long term customers who see me as a valuable partner that is prepared to work with them, not just take them for as much money as I can.

Now that's a service industry, and Breitling runs a very low volume per buyer product business which is very different, but they will still damage their market reputation if they are perceived to be offering less value for money - they may be making more cash per unit today, but that may result in lower sales volumes in the future.

Just ask Google what the consensus opinion on short termism is.