Poll on breitling purchases

FEAR · **Posted:** Sun May 22, 2011 6:38 pm

boogiebot wrote:

Roffensian wrote:

I voted no - not too many that appeal to me at the moment, and I'll look resale right now. Of my recent purchases that weren't from an AD, the Martin Braun (that ended up going back as it was broken), the Franc Vila, the Louis Moinet and the Romain Jerome were all either new or virtually new and they were all lower than list price on the Navitimer 01 - three of them were lower than I could get the Navitimer 01 for from an AD.

To me, that's ludicrous.

+1

. when you think of it thats nuts.

@ FEAR hey bud the resale on these things at the end of the day are still pretty crappy. take my GT racing for example on croco deployant i think the list is roughly 7300 or so. i would be lucky to get 3700 and thats just me being honest. now we can all say what we want about them being over produced, but look at rolex they make close to 4 times as many watches as per cosco numbers in 09 and their resale is much higher. this is due to them having that cult like following. this is JMO but the only way to do that is to stop making crazy changes to the lineup.

with the exception of submariners, seadwellers and daytonas, rolex's resale value isnt much different at all, i have cases full of pre owned rolex at half the price of new, some 25cents on the dolllar.

my point is that used lings sell for about half of list price, so when the list price goes up 10% the used ones go up as well, here is a perfect example.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29478&p=216692&hilit=crosswind#p216692

used crosswid special, for sale for 2700 pre owned, i paid less than that for mine brand new in 02!

boogiebot · **Posted:** Sun May 22, 2011 6:49 pm

ok dont take me the wrong way here but the stuff you have in your case is from 2002 if my memory serves me correct. im only basing this off your for sale items in the buy sell here. i think that you had a few two tones that you were askin 5kish for correct? i would love to know what the cost was for them back in 02. my guess is that they were close in value to what they are selling for in your case...or am i totally wrong?

FEAR · **Posted:** Sun May 22, 2011 7:13 pm

boogiebot wrote:

ok dont take me the wrong way here but the stuff you have in your case is from 2002 if my memory serves me correct. im only basing this off your for sale items in the buy sell here. i think that you had a few two tones that you were askin 5kish for correct? i would love to know what the cost was for them back in 02. my guess is that they were close in value to what they are selling for in your case...or am i totally wrong?

you are confusing 2 different points, CURRENT retail on a 2 tone date just is 10k ish, pre owneds are half that, thats my point.

and when retail prices go up, the value of the watches we already own goes up. thats what im saying.

here is the rolex from my 4 sale

2 2 tone subs for 5700, current list is 12,200

a like new day date with onyx dial, not a great example for 18k, list is 30+

and a 2 tone datejust for under 3k that lists for 10k

i have a 3 year old MINT like new datejust with oyster bracelet and factory white diamond dial, list is 11450, mine for sale for 6.

like i said, they are around half of current list, with exception of a few models. overall rolex holds better, but its not like people think, you dont get what you pay for them 99 percent of the time like most watches

boogiebot · **Posted:** Sun May 22, 2011 7:45 pm

FEAR wrote:

boogiebot wrote:

ok dont take me the wrong way here but the stuff you have in your case is from 2002 if my memory serves me correct. im only basing this off your for sale items in the buy sell here. i think that you had a few two tones that you were askin 5kish for correct? i would love to know what the cost was for them back in 02. my guess is that they were close in value to what they are selling for in your case...or am i totally wrong?

you are confusing 2 different points, CURRENT retail on a 2 tone date just is 10k ish, pre owneds are half that, thats my point.

and when retail prices go up, the value of the watches we already own goes up. thats what im saying.

here is the rolex from my 4 sale

2 2 tone subs for 5700, current list is 12,200

a like new day date with onyx dial, not a great example for 18k, list is 30+

and a 2 tone datejust for under 3k that lists for 10k

i have a 3 year old MINT like new datejust with oyster bracelet and factory white diamond dial, list is 11450, mine for sale for 6.

like i said, they are around half of current list, with exception of a few models. overall rolex holds better, but its not like people think, you dont get what you pay for them 99 percent of the time like most watches

sure i get it you take a loss on them when you sell them.

but lets compare apples to apples here. the 2 two tones that you have selling for 5700 are they dated for 2002?? the list on them was roughly 5800 in 96 and price increase to 6675 in 2004 as can be seen in the price list here http://www.minus4plus6.com/PriceEvolution.htm. so basically if these watches were from 2002 them selling for 5700 in your showcase is pretty amazing.

and the 2 tone DJ that youre selling for 3k when was that made?

my point is this you buy a breitling brand new out of the AD and try to sell it and you will be bending over grabbing your ankles (pun intended)

You buy a Rolex brand new from the AD and sell it and your loss is minimal.

Sure there are discounts to be had on Breitling lets say 25% off on average. So lets say you go out tomorrow and buy a SA for example which is a super popular watch and easy to sell new or used, retails for 5g now one bracelet right? 25 points off would make that 4k. you can still find SA's used NP for 2800. You go out and buy a SS subc you could probably work 10% on the 8000 dollar watch. making it 7200 when you walk out of the store. You turn around and sell it the next day do you think you take close to the 30 points you lost on the SA? hell no! i say easily you could get back 7000 for the subc.

sure these are 2 different styles of watches, my point is that breitling resale is still way worst than Rolex.

FEAR · **Posted:** Sun May 22, 2011 8:24 pm

The 2 tone dj is sold butbtbat would be normal for an 02 The black sub was 02 and half of curtsy list.

And 25 off of 5k is 3750 not 4 k. And a new sun on bracelet is 3700 at 25 back. You can flip it for 3k all day as is shown in our own forbsale section. Look at complete auctions on eBay.
With the exception of subs, seadwellers daytonas and some yachmaster, rolex holds opts value About as well, maybe a little Better than breitlings do. Both sell a few years old right near half of current model list.

boogiebot wrote:

FEAR wrote:

boogiebot wrote:

ok dont take me the wrong way here but the stuff you have in your case is from 2002 if my memory serves me correct. im only basing this off your for sale items in the buy sell here. i think that you had a few two tones that you were askin 5kish for correct? i would love to know what the cost was for them back in 02. my guess is that they were close in value to what they are selling for in your case...or am i totally wrong?

you are confusing 2 different points, CURRENT retail on a 2 tone date just is 10k ish, pre owneds are half that, thats my point.

and when retail prices go up, the value of the watches we already own goes up. thats what im saying.

here is the rolex from my 4 sale

2 2 tone subs for 5700, current list is 12,200

a like new day date with onyx dial, not a great example for 18k, list is 30+

and a 2 tone datejust for under 3k that lists for 10k

i have a 3 year old MINT like new datejust with oyster bracelet and factory white diamond dial, list is 11450, mine for sale for 6.

like i said, they are around half of current list, with exception of a few models. overall rolex holds better, but its not like people think, you dont get what you pay for them 99 percent of the time like most watches

sure i get it you take a loss on them when you sell them.

but lets compare apples to apples here. the 2 two tones that you have selling for 5700 are they dated for 2002?? the list on them was roughly 5800 in 96 and price increase to 6675 in 2004 as can be seen in the price list here http://www.minus4plus6.com/PriceEvolution.htm. so basically if these watches were from 2002 them selling for 5700 in your showcase is pretty amazing.

and the 2 tone DJ that youre selling for 3k when was that made?

my point is this you buy a breitling brand new out of the AD and try to sell it and you will be bending over grabbing your ankles (pun intended)

You buy a Rolex brand new from the AD and sell it and your loss is minimal.

Sure there are discounts to be had on Breitling lets say 25% off on average. So lets say you go out tomorrow and buy a SA for example which is a super popular watch and easy to sell new or used, retails for 5g now one bracelet right? 25 points off would make that 4k. you can still find SA's used NP for 2800. You go out and buy a SS subc you could probably work 10% on the 8000 dollar watch. making it 7200 when you walk out of the store. You turn around and sell it the next day do you think you take close to the 30 points you lost on the SA? hell no! i say easily you could get back 7000 for the subc.

sure these are 2 different styles of watches, my point is that breitling resale is still way worst than Rolex.

911monty · **Posted:** Sun May 22, 2011 8:27 pm

Well; I voted no. My favorite watches are discontinued... :cry:

That's why I bought my new Steelfish to go with my Superocean Pro. My tastes are more to the practical side. I want to admire my watches on my wrist. Not on a winder. :soapbox:

FEAR · **Posted:** Sun May 22, 2011 8:32 pm

but lets compare apples to apples here. the 2 two tones that you have selling for 5700 are they dated for 2002?? the list on them was roughly 5800 in 96 and price increase to 6675 in 2004 as can be seen in the price list here http://www.minus4plus6.com/PriceEvolution.htm. so basically if these watches were from 2002 them selling for 5700 in your showcase is pretty amazing.

Ok a crosswind special list price in 92 was 3200 for a head right near 4 k on a bracelet. Used ones in 2010 are right near 3k, 1k less than new or 25% less than they were new. A sub was 6500 I'm 02 and I sell it for 5500 now almost 20 % less than it was new.. Seems real close to me.

It's not as drastic as people think... Go to the rolex forum. Try sell cheaper than you think they do.

FEAR · **Posted:** Sun May 22, 2011 9:17 pm

for the record, im not saying breitling resale is as good as rolex, but its not as different as you may think, the values on lings are pretty close, but we give the rolex's too much credit, they arent as good as people assume. im not dealing in theory here, its from day to day experience in doing this.

for the record, i have been buying and selling watches longer more than 10 years, and i have lost money on one breitling, just one. and it was 100$. i buy them used or very discounted new, and i buy models i know i can get out of. i wore my sabs for a year and sold it for $500 more than i paid. only one i lost on was my diamond sa, i bought for 5k and sold for 4900.

there are many lines that are WAAAAAY worse than breitling, movado is about 10 cents on the dollar used, baum, ray w., tag, are all a good bit worse than breitling.

for the record, you want to talk about price increases and infaltion, in 1964, a mustang base price was about $2500, and a rolex sub was under $200

now the car is 25k, 10 times more than 1964 and the sub is almost 10k, 50x more than it was then!

boogiebot · **Posted:** Sun May 22, 2011 9:38 pm

FEAR wrote:

for the record, im not saying breitling resale is as good as rolex, but its not as different as you may think, the values on lings are pretty close, but we give the rolex's too much credit, they arent as good as people assume. im not dealing in theory here, its from day to day experience in doing this.

for the record, i have been buying and selling watches longer more than 10 years, and i have lost money on one breitling, just one. and it was 100$. i buy them used or very discounted new, and i buy models i know i can get out of. i wore my sabs for a year and sold it for $500 more than i paid. only one i lost on was my diamond sa, i bought for 5k and sold for 4900.

there are many lines that are WAAAAAY worse than breitling, movado is about 10 cents on the dollar used, baum, ray w., tag, are all a good bit worse than breitling.

for the record, you want to talk about price increases and infaltion, in 1964, a mustang base price was about $2500, and a rolex sub was under $200

now the car is 25k, 10 times more than 1964 and the sub is almost 10k, 50x more than it was then!

hey bud in your situation you have much moe experience buying and selling these watches than the average joe like myself and many others. and also you have the opportunity where you work to be able to get these pieces at prices that the average public like myself would never be able to get them for. so i wouldnt expect a guy like you to lose on lings. but when most of us buy these pieces especially breitling we get hit pretty hard if we want to move out of it. and to be honest you cant compare movado and raymond veil to breitling....cmon thats like comparing a chev and a ford to a porsche :lol:

edited for spelling

FEAR · **Posted:** Sun May 22, 2011 9:41 pm

boogiebot wrote:

FEAR wrote:

for the record, im not saying breitling resale is as good as rolex, but its not as different as you may think, the values on lings are pretty close, but we give the rolex's too much credit, they arent as good as people assume. im not dealing in theory here, its from day to day experience in doing this.

for the record, i have been buying and selling watches longer more than 10 years, and i have lost money on one breitling, just one. and it was 100$. i buy them used or very discounted new, and i buy models i know i can get out of. i wore my sabs for a year and sold it for $500 more than i paid. only one i lost on was my diamond sa, i bought for 5k and sold for 4900.

there are many lines that are WAAAAAY worse than breitling, movado is about 10 cents on the dollar used, baum, ray w., tag, are all a good bit worse than breitling.

for the record, you want to talk about price increases and infaltion, in 1964, a mustang base price was about $2500, and a rolex sub was under $200

now the car is 25k, 10 times more than 1964 and the sub is almost 10k, 50x more than it was then!

hey bud in your situation you have much moe experience buying and selling these watches than the average joe like myself and many others. and also you have the opportunity where you work to be able to get these pieces at prices that the average public like myself would never be able to get them for. so i wouldnt expect a guy like you to lose on lings. but when most of us buy these pieces especially breitling we get pretty hard if we want to move out of it. and to be honest you cant compare movado and raymond veil to breitling....cmon thats like comparing a chev and a ford to a porsche :lol:

i know, i wasnt including watches i bought and sold since i started selling watches and jewelry as a profession, i was referring to when i was just a collector like everyone else, i still am really.

boogiebot · **Posted:** Sun May 22, 2011 9:44 pm

FEAR wrote:

boogiebot wrote:

FEAR wrote:

for the record, im not saying breitling resale is as good as rolex, but its not as different as you may think, the values on lings are pretty close, but we give the rolex's too much credit, they arent as good as people assume. im not dealing in theory here, its from day to day experience in doing this.

for the record, i have been buying and selling watches longer more than 10 years, and i have lost money on one breitling, just one. and it was 100$. i buy them used or very discounted new, and i buy models i know i can get out of. i wore my sabs for a year and sold it for $500 more than i paid. only one i lost on was my diamond sa, i bought for 5k and sold for 4900.

there are many lines that are WAAAAAY worse than breitling, movado is about 10 cents on the dollar used, baum, ray w., tag, are all a good bit worse than breitling.

for the record, you want to talk about price increases and infaltion, in 1964, a mustang base price was about $2500, and a rolex sub was under $200

now the car is 25k, 10 times more than 1964 and the sub is almost 10k, 50x more than it was then!

hey bud in your situation you have much moe experience buying and selling these watches than the average joe like myself and many others. and also you have the opportunity where you work to be able to get these pieces at prices that the average public like myself would never be able to get them for. so i wouldnt expect a guy like you to lose on lings. but when most of us buy these pieces especially breitling we get pretty hard if we want to move out of it. and to be honest you cant compare movado and raymond veil to breitling....cmon thats like comparing a chev and a ford to a porsche :lol:

i know, i wasnt including watches i bought and sold since i started selling watches and jewelry as a profession, i was referring to when i was just a collector like everyone else, i still am really.

fair enough.

Driver8 · **Posted:** Mon May 23, 2011 1:12 am

I voted yes, although I can't see it being "in the near future" - probably more likely to be this time next year - and that's ony because I really like the new non-LE Navitimer 01, and I really want a B01 movement in my collection.

Of course, during that time they may stick the B04 into a new Navi World, and then I'll be a very happy man.

But either way, I'll only be buying with a VERY HEFTY AD discount, or I'll be waiting even longer until they're available used (or maybe even through the grey market :shock:

).

With the latest price rise, Breitling are in SERIOUS danger of pricing themselves out of a lot of people's eyelines.

ricardo · **Posted:** Mon May 23, 2011 2:11 am

I hav voted no because that fits my situation best.

I have just bought a brand new Montbrillant Olympus.

All the current models do not appeal, except the B01 and N01. These are only attractive thought because of the decent discount I can get.

Other than this my Breitling aspirations now lie in the discontinued, pre-owned and vintage market.

I'm afraid I have to concur with most that Breitling's price point doesn't seem to fit the brand now. However, I would be very happy to be proven wrong over time.

I'm still a massive fan of Breitling, just not their current catalogue and price list.

andrew692003 · **Posted:** Mon May 23, 2011 4:14 am

ricardo wrote:

I hav voted no because that fits my situation best.

I have just bought a brand new Montbrillant Olympus.

All the current models do not appeal, except the B01 and N01. These are only attractive thought because of the decent discount I can get.

Other than this my Breitling aspirations now lie in the discontinued, pre-owned and vintage market.

I'm afraid I have to concur with most that Breitling's price point doesn't seem to fit the brand now. However, I would be very happy to be proven wrong over time.

I'm still a massive fan of Breitling, just not their current catalogue and price list.

Can I get some more discount on my Navi World from AM's then? :wink:

Cheers

Fleetlord · **Posted:** Mon May 23, 2011 5:27 am

FEAR wrote:

boogiebot wrote:

ok dont take me the wrong way here but the stuff you have in your case is from 2002 if my memory serves me correct. im only basing this off your for sale items in the buy sell here. i think that you had a few two tones that you were askin 5kish for correct? i would love to know what the cost was for them back in 02. my guess is that they were close in value to what they are selling for in your case...or am i totally wrong?

you are confusing 2 different points, CURRENT retail on a 2 tone date just is 10k ish, pre owneds are half that, thats my point.

and when retail prices go up, the value of the watches we already own goes up. thats what im saying.

here is the rolex from my 4 sale

2 2 tone subs for 5700, current list is 12,200

a like new day date with onyx dial, not a great example for 18k, list is 30+

and a 2 tone datejust for under 3k that lists for 10k

i have a 3 year old MINT like new datejust with oyster bracelet and factory white diamond dial, list is 11450, mine for sale for 6.

like i said, they are around half of current list, with exception of a few models. overall rolex holds better, but its not like people think, you dont get what you pay for them 99 percent of the time like most watches

You're using the worst examples of Rolex models to prove your point.

The two tone sub @ $12k is a new model with the ceramic bezel and new bracelet. A 2002 @ $5700 two tone is none of those things and more than likely is pretty beat up and stretched out. How can you compare that?

The Day Date and Datejust are also terrible because of the gold and diamonds. Look at how much a SA with diamond bezel is worth pre-owned....

Also, price increases themselves don't automatically mean your pre-owned watch is worth more. It is supply and demand, just like any other good. Simple economics. You can see that with Omega Speedmasters. When they were $3k MSRP, they sold for $1800 -$2000. Now MSRP is $4050. What do they sell for? $1800 -$2000. People may try and ask more for it, but they don't sell. The market is saturated with preowned and thus their value did not increase with the MSRP

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