The Breitling Watch Source Forums

If you're going to get a Zenith stay away from Defy models. The Defy models use a Defy movement, it's still an in house movement, but it's NOT an El Primero. If you ever decide to sell it you can expect about $0.20 on $1.00 in return. El Primero all the way.

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"I don't own any watches, I just lease them"

Some of them use El Primeros and some use Elites. even the Zero G was badged as an El Primero.

Resale is awful on them, but they are the same movements.

That's right, my mistake. I believe Ricardo had a Defy with an El Primero now that I think about it.

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"I don't own any watches, I just lease them"

Thank you. I was always Wild Bill, but sometime after college it became MrBill. I guess I calmed down.

What sort of delusion are you going through. All Defys have an El Primero or an Elite movement.

Wow!!! Cut back on the meds.

Yes. But, Rolex "de-tuned" them from 36,000 bph to 28,800. Why? IMO if Rolex did not the question would be "why aren't all Rolexes 36,000?".

Since 1969 the El Primero has been a movement other watch makers have not been able to surpass.

Look out Mr. Bill, here comes Sluggo. audemar piguet has a higher beat movement now - 42000 I believe and Breguet came out with their 72,000 bph movement in 2010.

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SHARKMAN

And in the past UN has used 5 Hz, Chopard has high beat, Zodiac (!) had high beat.

Zenith El Primero - great movement, but not the first and not the only high beat!

And with the increased use of silicon technology, we will see more higher frequency movements.


And correct me if I'm wrong, but higher frequency alone doesn't necessarily a better movement or a "smoother" second or chrono hand. There are some fantastic 21,000bph movements used in very high end pieces.

That said, I'm a big fan of the El Primero, but it isn't correct to assert Zenith accomplished something a long time ago that no one else has or even that many aspire to.

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SHARKMAN

Tourbillons are traditionally 21,600 or even 18,000 and for a number of different reasons that's likely to continue.

The high beat will give a smoother sweep because there will be different movements per second (all other factors being equal), and they are theoretically more accurate, but that still needs a skilled watchmaker to implement.

They are also more likely to have shorter power reserves and shorter service intervals. The UN high beat movements were modified ETA ebauches so clearly it can be done - the major reason that others haven't done it (and why UN moved away from it) is that the advantages just aren't worth it vs. the drawbacks.

Silicon and related technologies will fundamentally change the playing field in ways that we can only guess, but El Primero stands alone as the only mass market high beat movement today because the market has deemed 4 Hz to be plenty.

I meant to say that dallas Defy's use an Elite movement.....but that comment is also wrong. But you have to admit, the Elite movement is not on the same level as the El Primero.

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"I don't own any watches, I just lease them"

I love the El Primero movement, but my one gripe with it is that it doesn't hack. Not a major problem but if it hacked it'd be perfect.

The Elite is a very underrated movement IMO. It's super thin and nicely made - it's just nothing "special" compared to the El Primero so it doesn't get noticed. But I reckon a lot of watch manufacturers would kill for an in-house like that.

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Driver8

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