Breitling mods to ETA movements?

B'ling · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:01 am

Roffensian wrote:

… over time your highly modified ETA movement becomes a standard ETA movement …...

Little odd starting a thread with a quote, but this has been on my mind for some time, and Roff has tempted me to ask.

I know Breitling modify the base ETA movements to a degree, but i don't know to what degree. How extensive are those modifications?

Thanks in advance.

sharkman · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:19 am

Breitling does not modify movements. They modify and add to ebauches.

An ebauche is simply a movement in kit form, but importantly it does not include mainspring, mainspring barrel or any of the escapement. If you add the missing pieces to an ebauche then you have a chablon, still in kit form.

Breitling does not reveal the specifics, but it is widely known they are starting with an ebauche and then add a new glycodur balance and the new hairspring is a nivarox 1 (1 being the highest grade, lowest is 5) or even anachron. The mainspring in the new barrel is also a nivarox (nivaflex) or anachron assumedly. Some screws in the ebauche are replaced by blued versions. The oscillating weight is decorated with "Côtes de Genève" and signed in 18K gold. Even the raw ebauches Breitling begins with are top grade ( 3 ) also which is obviously a better base for the modifications.

Also, well before the cessation of supply of ebauches from Swatch, Breitling began producing a number of additional pieces of components of these movements in house (through the subsidiary company Kelek).

electrosound · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:06 am

sharkman wrote:

Breitling does not modify movements. They modify and add to ebauches.

An ebauche is simply a movement in kit form, but importantly it does not include mainspring, mainspring barrel or any of the escapement. If you add the missing pieces to an ebauche then you have a chablon, still in kit form.

Breitling does not reveal the specifics, but it is widely known they are starting with an ebauche and then add a new glycodur balance and the new hairspring is a nivarox 1 (1 being the highest grade, lowest is 5) or even anachron. The mainspring in the new barrel is also a nivarox (nivaflex) or anachron assumedly. Some screws in the ebauche are replaced by blued versions. The oscillating weight is decorated with "Côtes de Genève" and signed in 18K gold. Even the raw ebauches Breitling begins with are top grade ( 3 ) also which is obviously a better base for the modifications.

Also, well before the cessation of supply of ebauches from Swatch, Breitling began producing a number of additional pieces of components of these movements in house (through the subsidiary company Kelek).

yes, but Kelek became Breitling Chronomètrie after aquired in 1997 by Breigling himself.

sharkman · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:35 am

Yes I know, but perhaps.the OP didn't. Twas 3am, wasn't up to a history lesson.

Roffensian · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:49 am

sharkman wrote:

Breitling does not modify movements. They modify and add to ebauches.

An ebauche is simply a movement in kit form, but importantly it does not include mainspring, mainspring barrel or any of the escapement. If you add the missing pieces to an ebauche then you have a chablon, still in kit form.

Breitling does not reveal the specifics, but it is widely known they are starting with an ebauche and then add a new glycodur balance and the new hairspring is a nivarox 1 (1 being the highest grade, lowest is 5) or even anachron. The mainspring in the new barrel is also a nivarox (nivaflex) or anachron assumedly. Some screws in the ebauche are replaced by blued versions. The oscillating weight is decorated with "Côtes de Genève" and signed in 18K gold. Even the raw ebauches Breitling begins with are top grade ( 3 ) also which is obviously a better base for the modifications.

Also, well before the cessation of supply of ebauches from Swatch, Breitling began producing a number of additional pieces of components of these movements in house (through the subsidiary company Kelek).

You should probably give me credit when you quote me :poke:

I think you'll find that Breitling starts with chronometer grade movement kits rather than top.

It's impossible to definitively say what Breitling replaces because beyond the standard additions / replacements that Shakman identifies they also test other components to tighter tolerances than ETA does. If the pieces pass those tests then they are kept, if they fail then they are replaced.

sharkman · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:47 am

Actually.it's from 3 sources. But if I decide to have Random House publish it someday, I will definitely use a footnote.

Roffensian · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:06 am

sharkman wrote:

Actually.it's from 3 sources. But if I decide to have Random House publish it someday, I will definitely use a footnote.

From this post - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15774&p=120046&#p120046

on January 12th, 2010:

Roffensian wrote:

An ebauche is simply a movement in kit form, but importantly it does not include mainspring, mainspring barrel or any of the escapement.

If you add the missing pieces to an ebauche then you have a chablon, still in kit form.

From your post in this thread:

Sharkman wrote:

An ebauche is simply a movement in kit form, but importantly it does not include mainspring, mainspring barrel or any of the escapement. If you add the missing pieces to an ebauche then you have a chablon, still in kit form.

QED

sharkman · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:59 am

Jesus, I said it was from 3 sources. As in copy/paste. To be specific, one paragraph from you, another from a guy on another forum, and another paragraph from me. You want me to put citations in at 3:19 AM?

Fine - the author acknowledges Roff, Frank, and himself for their assistance in this scholarly endeavour. :poke:

mfserge · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:16 am

Sounds like someone has an inferiority complex. Or just a huge ego. We all know that you know EVERYTHING about watches so relax.

Roffensian · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:26 am

mfserge wrote:

Sounds like someone has an inferiority complex. Or just a huge ego. We all know that you know EVERYTHING about watches so relax.

I'm a frequently published author on a topic that very, very few people on here know about (so I guess the ego isn't that large), and any author will tell you that a basic tenet is quoting your sources. Tom's a lawyer, he should know that. It also protects him when he quotes incorrect information - i.e. that Breitling uses top grade.

Still, what ever makesyou feel better Sergio.

dhalem · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:27 am

Roff, you didn't seem to cite any sources in your post, so I assume you gathered that information first hand at the Breitling factory?

Roffensian · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:48 am

dhalem wrote:

Roff, you didn't seem to cite any sources in your post, so I assume you gathered that information first hand at the Breitling factory?

<sigh>

Two points....

1) There is a difference between learning information and quoting other sources word for word; many, many posts here are answered by people researching information from other posts, but that is different from just copying information and pasting it as your own
2) I don't recall where I get all of my information (do you?), but my posts (unless I cite sources) are based on my writing and interpretation of facts that I have picked up from many different places. Generically that includes, Breitling staff, Breitling distributor staff, Breitling AD staff, various publications, conversations with other enthusaiasts, conversations with independent experts, etc, etc, etc. I have even been known to enhance my knowledge by reading information from a number of different people that I found using your employer's search engine.

Of course your post was just to stir the pot and incite a response, and congratulations - you were successful.

I stand by my position - if you copy someone else's post word for word, give them the credit.

I have nothing further to say on this topic so feel free to post further criticisms of me without the prospect of response, my suggested "inferiority complex. Or just a huge ego" (mfserge) can take it.

mfserge · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:55 am

This is a watch forum dude, we're talkin bout watches, WATCHES, We talkin bout WATCHESSSS.

Citation: Allen Iverson.

Who cares who quotes who, it's pretty petty to even ask to be given credit or quoted! This isn't a medical forum, or a legal forum, it's watches. Get a life.

dhalem · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:20 am

Roffensian wrote:

I'm a frequently published author on a topic that very, very few people on here know about (so I guess the ego isn't that large), and any author will tell you that a basic tenet is quoting your sources.

I've read some of those 'publications'. You mean these I assume:
http://www.gantthead.com/profile/andyjordan/

sharkman · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:40 am

Look, if I felt I owed you an apology for copying a paragraph from a blog post I would readily do so. But this is blog stuff for Christ's sake. I wasn't trying to steal your thunder and I didn't quote from anything you "published." Rather it was an answer you gave me to a question I posed a year ago.

Or if I was trying to just look smart and crap with an answer to the OP's question, then I'd apologize for behaving like an asshole.

But damnit, this is absolutely ridiculous. In a late night effort to be helpful to another member, I searched, copied and pasted from 3 posts, because none of the individual posts were truly directed to the question, but all contained some useful info.

As to citation requirements, credits, egos or any other friggin' thing, I have nothing further to say.

Except, this entire thread has become "stupid, stupid, stupid." 1

1. John Grisham, The Rainmaker, page number to be supplemented

The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Breitling mods to ETA movements?

Who is online

	The Breitling Watch Source Forums Breitling Watch Information Forums, Navitimer, Chronomat