The Breitling Watch Source Forums

First post here, so I thought I'd make it good. I've been visiting this site for years, but never had anything to contribute or add. Unfortunately, now I do!

Heads up on some serious scammers on eBay..............very flashy website, live chat, quick reponses to emails, fairly good feedback over many years, etc. Here's the short version:

They sold me a "new" Breitling Lady Cockpit with an aftermarket [altered standard] "diamond" bezel. The auction said "100% authentic" and the picture, model number, and appraisal were for an authentic one. When it showed up, it was the standard bezel that had been machined out to accept inserts. I don't know if they were diamonds or not, but they were definately not the size and quality of those in an authentic bezel. It was in good shape, but I'm not sure if it was actually "new". No paperwork either, even though the auction said it was included.



These are cut and pastes of the emails....

My email to them:

Something disturbing has arisen. The bezel on this Cockpit Lady is
not original. It is the standard non-diamond bezel that has been
machined out to accept pavi inserts. The size of these diamonds (or
CZs) are confirmed to be substantially smaller and lower grade than
the ones in the authentic bezel. While whoever did this, did a very
nice job; it is not authentic, nor "up to par" with the original.
See attached pictures.........The picture from the auction &
appraisal, the watch received, and the standard bezel for reference.
Were you aware of this?

Response from infinititimepieces.com...........

Yes, we are aware of the bezel.

And my reponse............

I'm a bit confused, as this is gross misrepresentation:

-You sold this watch as 100% authentic per your auction.
-You sold this as model number as A7135653/G578 (the "53" indicate an authentic steel diamond bezel.) This is a A7135612/G578 with a modified bezel.
-You have a picture of the authentic model for sale, which has a different bezel than the one received.
-You stated in the appraisal that the bezel on this watch is .56 ct & VVSI--that is the weight of the authentic model per Breitling's catalog. This bezel is less in weight and quality.

From your website: "All of our timepieces are brand new and include all original parts, including the manufacturer’s box and documentation. We do not sell refurbished, returned or replicated watches"

Please explain.....because it sure looks like fraud from my end.

And here's their response:

"This isn't fraud. We list different items on ebay compared to our site. The auction would have mentioned is has an "original" diamond bezel if that was the case. It simply says diamond bezel, cause that's what it states and is. The bezel is what the appraisal states."


They refused to refund my money, but when I opened an eBay investigation, then they said they only would process it only after I left positive feedback.

My credit card company, eBay, and PayPal did a chargeback and got my money back from these crooks.


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And the LOOOOOOONG version of the story for those interested.

I purchased a Breitling Cockpit Lady from InfinitiTimepieces.com through an eBay auction. It was sold "New, 100% authentic, moneyback guarantee, 3 yr extended warranty, etc." The model number listed (and pictured) was A7135653/G578 which is a Stainless Steel Lady Cockpit, stainless bracelet, 8 diamond silver face, and . 56 tw ct VVSI diamond bezel.

The MSRP on this watch was $6640 and they had it listed for $3450 (or 48% off). Complete auctions on that same used model, were right around $3200, so this looked like a good price. I researched the website and had several nice emails with "Bill".

Before bidding I asked if they would provide an appraisal, and got the reponse, "No problem." The watch showed up on time, looked fine, serial numbers were the right for the year manufactured, but I never got an appraisal or any paperwork with it. After 4 emails I started to get suspicious why they wouldn't give me the appraisal.

Then I happened to glance at a Chronolog and it hit like a ton of bricks..........the bezel was not original. It was a standard Breitling bezel that had been machined out to accept diamonds. It was very good work, but the hour markers gave it away. After visiting an AD, I could tell the diamonds were not the quality nor size of Breitling's originals (VVSI).

I wanted to do a little investigating before blowing a gasket, so I left them negative feedback saying they didn't send me an appraisal as promised. That got a response within an hour demanding I remove it. I said, "as soon as I get the appraisal, I will make the appropriate corrections". They said it was ready to send out and sent me a picture of the envelope, demanding again that I remove the negative feedback at once. The envelope had little pieces of paper cut out laying on the envelope with my address (not taped to). I said, "not until I get the appraisal." So then they emailed me an appraisal, not signed, wrong serial number, and just "diamond bezel". I asked them to verify the model number, serial number, list the diamond info, SIGN IT, and resend. They listed the model number and diamond weight for the authentic bezel, but said, "we don't sign them".

I knew at that point that they were dirty. I was in Las Vegas at the time and told them I visited a few ADs, saw originals, and the bezels were different. I listed the model numbers, took pictures, etc and sent it with the email asking them if they were aware that the bezel was not authentic. TO MY SURPRISE, they answered, "we are aware of the bezel". I was floored.......I couldn't believe they were arrogent enough to falsify an appraisal, but then stupid enough to admit they new it was not 100% authentic (as advertised.)

I has already filed a chargeback with my CC company and began the eBay and PayPal process. I get an email back from General Manager "George" them saying they will graciousely extend the return policy, and take it back. But I have to change the feedback to positive by 5pm that day or they would not accept my return. I told them I would not change the feedback and I was going to let eBay work this out for me. About 10 days later (when the chargeback hit,) I get a shipping label from them demanding that I send the watch back that day by 5pm or they were going to call the local authorities on me. I was out of town and sent it back when I got back home. About a week later, my account was was credited.

My credit card company was overly supportive as was eBay and PayPal. I wasn't worried for a second that I wouldn't get my money back.

These scammers did a good job hiding their identies.......no last names, using their middle names to incorporate, address going to UPS Stores, etc. But not good enough.......After searching the IL Sec of State website I found a unique last name which I was able to trace to a hobby shop on the same street as their original UPS Store address. And no surprise, "George" and "Bill" [same last name] own it! And the same lawyer incorporated both companies. I won't list the other commonalities I found, their last name, hobby shop name........but with a little sleuthing, you can find it as easy as I did.

I filed a complaint with the IL Attorney General, IC3, eBay, PayPal, the BBB, and will post this here and Timezone.

Watch out! I've been on eBay 11 yrs and this was the first time I've been burned. But, I took every measure to CYA before I bought. Always use a credit card on top of PayPal. Two layers of protection, plus eBay's new "Buyer's Protection". They never stood a chance, and that's why I took the gamble buying off eBay.

Search keywords: InfinitiTimepieces.com Inifiniti Timepieces InfinitiTimepieces Breitling Rolex eBay PayPal attorney crook thieves fraud scam rip off ripoff fake replica 1-888-553-7214 8885537214 888-553-7214 869 E. Schaumburg Road #138 Pekarik George Bill William Ball Productions

ADs are the only way to go unless you know the seller. Hope it ends well for you

Well first off welcome to the site. That is indeed quite the first post. I'm glad you took measures as you mention with Paypal and the credit card to protect yourself and in the end it looks like (after much frustration) that it turned out ok. Thanks for the heads up on these guys.

Yeah, I always pay via PayPal and a AMEX card on top of that. Double layer of protection. I've never had to use it until now.

And, I rarely take payments via PayPal. When I do, I immediately transfer to a separate old checking account that I leave the minimum balance in. Withdrawn the cash from the ATM, then the item ships.

PayPal and eBay will be gone if buyers' confidence hinders, and that's why the side with the buyer almost everytime. I remember reading a recent post about a gentleman who had his funds reversed because PayPal accepted a bad credit card. That was the worst story I've ever heard when it comes to PayPal. Like another said, you contracted them to handle the credit card, it was their responsibility to confirm it was valid.

PS: Don't forget to use the Bing Cashback deal. That would have saved me $200 if this would have gone through.

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The whole experience was a pain in the butt, however, since my money was never in jeopardy, it wasn't nerve racking. It was somewhat self gradifying that after 11 yrs of eBay'ing in a super-CYA manner, it finally saved me. Also, I couldn't believe I talked them into giving me an appraisal, which will now be strong evidence against them if the IL Attorney General or IC3/FBI takes action. They haven't listed a watch on eBay since this all went down, so I wonder if they have pending action with eBay/PayPal.

Oh well. Actually, the bezel didn't look half bad. If the "diamonds" would have been higher quality, it would have look pretty good, even with the smaller size. It would have been hard to stomach another $2000 to get the authentic bezel in that case.

I'm still in the market for one! My wife like the 8 diamond face rather than the 12, and those are hard to find. Also, I've always wanted a Montbrillant. My '97 Chrono Cockpit still looks good, but I want a second one.

You Sir...are...the...MAN! You took the time and effort to stand up for yourself and came out the victor. Good job for not being a victim.

If you go through an AD you can have one custom made for you. Breitling will make any combination of dial / case combination for you that is their standard combination (i.e. you have to choose a dial for a steel model in a steel case, you can't put a gold model dial in a steel case).

No more money, should still get the same discount, you just have to wait 2 - 3 months for the production to be scheduled. Some ADs are reluctant, but it can definitely be done - my wife was in the self same position - she wanted a black dial 8 diamond TT Cockpit Lady and I went that route.

I go through ADs only. All those auction sites are not dependable, especially for this kind of merchandise, hence the huge price differences. Unless, of course, if you know the seller. If nobody bought those fakes, they wouldn't post them anymore on these sites. Who wouldn't like to buy a real and new Breitling with 50% off the list price? Like my grandfather used to say "cheap meat is only for the dogs". But it's good to know it turned out well for you. We should always stand up against crooks.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

I have purchased 4 watches off of Ebay now, plus countless other things, and have never had an issue. With the watches, I either buy them from individuals who are good communicators, or brick and mortar stores with reputations I can verify. Of course, this doesn't mean that eventually I won't run into problems, but I think that the overwhelming majority of people and businesses out there are honest. Strangely, it is the bigger .com-only ones (like the one here) that seem to give people the most grief. And they always seem to be in the details...it's never an outright fake, but there are things wrong like it's not really new, or it doesn't actually come with papers, or the bezel is aftermarket, or the strap isn't genuine, etc. Totally unacceptable, of course, but I think they have figured out how to increase their profit margins without being quite disreputable enough to get in trouble.

Helipilot, a big thanks to you for taking the time to stick to your guns and shine the light on these guys! You are making Ebay safer for the rest of us.

///M

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." --Dave Barry

Glad to hear you got your money back. Paypal is not always very cooperative if you didnt purchase on ebay and if it wasnt for goods. They call it the safe way of paying but unless you bought it on ebay AND it was goods (not services or software) they wont raise a finger

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Navitimer, Steelfish, Colt GMT, Aerospace, Chronospace, Chrono Superocean

Great post and great info there Heli! It all seems to be ending ok for you!

Oh yeah welcome to the Source!

Cheers

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Currently:
Avenger Skyland(Black)
Super Avenger(White)

Moved on:
Montbrillant Legende(Silver)
Panerai 312
SOHC 125th Ann. LE(Silver)
Navitimer World(Pearl)
Panerai 441

wow great first post! now im late for work ! lol
when i was first looking for a breitling i was hunting all over the internet.untill i came upon this fantastic site ,where i actually learned that the a.d was the best way to go!maybe youll pay more money but in the end you dont have to worry about anything.its real,guaranteed,certified etc.
buying on the internet is like internet dating.you never know who or what will show up !you ever see a personal add saying, big fat hairy chick looking for young slim rich man ! hahahaha

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breitling polished blackbird
omega seamaster
tag heuer f1 indy 500
tag heuer original f1

After a three month break, they're back on eBay with about 300+ watches for sale.

Looking through the Breitlings, most have aftermarket/modified diamond bezels on them. Little pavi insets placed into a machined standard rotating bezel. The hour markers are a dead giveaway now that I know what to look for.

They list the MSRP for the real diamond bezeled watched--which is close to double standard bezeled on some models--so it appears that you're getting 50% off. More like 10% off a the standard bezeled watch + $100 of junk diamonds.....not the colorless VVSI's in the real ones.

BEWARE!!

Yikes. Glad everything worked out for you.

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[Witty signature here]

I just bought a watch from Infinititimepieces.com and everything went really well. Everyone I spoke with was friendly and knowledgeable and communication was timely and informative. Of course the watch was perfect and exactly as described. I guess no business can get it right every time. Sorry you had such a bad experience.

It might be, if it has a standard bezel.
Most of these "crooks" are playing with words and all of their bezels are OEM bezels with aftermarket diamonds.