The Breitling Watch Source Forums

I'm starting to wish people didn't discuss discounting on this forum.....


Mainly because it's so relative. Big Deal Dave pops up here and says he ALWAYS gets 35% off on his Breitling and wouldn't settle for less.....What he doesn't say is that he's buying the watch in Iowa and has spent a bunch of money with the same AD, thus having a relationship that garners discounts...

Joey Paycheck reads this, goes into an AD in NY or South Florida and expects 35% off because Big Deal Dave got 35% off "on the forum". Joey Paycheck gets shown the door with no discount. Different parts of the country and different situations will creat different results....Keep that in mind..

Quite honestly dealers shouldn't discount at all (unless you are a repeat loyal buyer). They should SELL and CLOSE. Properly trained and compensated sales staff will make sure dealers don't leave money on the table. Whoreing out the brand because the dealer is lazy and his sales staff are incompetent is bad for Breitling. Most sales staff in AD's are pathetic. They don't qualify the buyer, meet their needs, and CLOSE. They just stand there like zombies and throw up a discounted price the first chance they get. That's real bad for Breilting as the brand starts to take a beating....

If there really is a price increase (still not convinced), then you should buy the Breitling you want now. You have fair warning, especially on the SA..

Of the 6 ADs I have purchased from not one initiated a discount offer. Not a one. For a minute there I thought I was reading a missive about the sub prime mortgage fiasco. I am not in sales, but know a tad about buying. I don't want to be "qualified" by a merchant (I qualify myself by having the payment in hand or having quick access to it) and if I feel the sales person is all about making the the "close," I'm out of there. I find sales people who can talk watches knowledgably (thus I will not return to Tourneau!). Spend time with me, indulge my time contraints above theirs, listen, and offer advice. If I feel pushed - I'm gone.

I know there is a school of thought that discounts cheapen a brand, but I am aware of no meaningful anecdotal, let alone emperical evidence for this. It could exist; I am not aware of it though.

If you haven't guessed yet, I do not ascribe to that school of thought.

As for stating discounts here, as you know we allow that while other forums do not. Indeed we allow a lot of stuff the other forums do not. One school of thought I DO ascribe to is more information is better than less information.

And if a discount gets Johhny Paycheck into his first Breitling he could not swing at full retail, I say "Right on for Johnny Paycheck!!"

The folks in Switzterland are big men and women and should be able to take care of their own brand images. And they are the ones who set up the two teir mark up system in the first instance.

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SHARKMAN

Did I just walk into a David Mamet play?

There is another school of thought on this, why dont i own a single panerai? because im not paying list, or anywhere near it for a watch, and im not buying it used unless its 40 off at least. same with rolex, when i get the deal i want i'll buy it, but not till im getting a deal to make it worth my while.

I vote this for "Understatement of the Year"

On another note, what the hell happened to this thread? Personally I don't think discounts cheapen a brand, in my opinion discounts will only help a brand by giving more people the opportunity to get one and represent that brand. I don't think Mercedes, Audi or BMW are cheapened as a brand and there's no way anyone on here, well I hope not at least, pays full sticker for a car. Why should we have to pay full sticker for a watch. What cheapens Breitling in my opinion are the ridiculous watches that they're been rolling out lately. I love Panerai and Rolex, those are the two watches that I want next, but the fact that discounts are hard to come by, to say the least, makes it that much harder for me to get one, even second hand the prices remain high.

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"Leave the gun, take the cannoli."

The Breitling vs. Panerai discussion is about price, not discount. I do believe that discounts should be reduced on Breitling, but that's not the same as saying that price should go up. For example if the SA is going to $5,100 and we can still get 25% on it then the street price is $3,825 and Breitling makes (in the US) $3,060 - the difference making up the dealer's gross margin.

I would much rather see the list price at (say) $4,200 with a (say) 8% discount and a 75% dealer price. That way the street price is virtually the same ($3,864 in my example), dealer price is little changed ($3,150) and status quo is more or less maintained.

I suspect that the issue for Breitling is that they want to be compared with other brands based on list price (which leads to the Panerai comparisons) rather than the street price (which is probably a little too close to Tag for comfort).

I was just using Panerai and Rolex as an example of two brands that don't discount, I wasn't really trying to add anything to a "Breitling vs. Panerai" argument. I do get what you're saying about lowering the MSRP and the discounts available but for me as long as I can afford it, I'm happy.

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"Leave the gun, take the cannoli."

Id venture to say that 90%+ of Breitling buyers only get a modest discount from an AD, i.e. <20%. People on this forum are the minority, so think of it as your "Breitling connection." Whether or not Deal Dave gets 35% off is only relevant to me if his dealer is willing to give me the same or similar deal. Its a fact that we have a lot of generous dealers that we work with on this board, and it only takes a little bit of elbow grease to find one that is willing to give you a nice deal. 35% is a long shot, and I know for certainty that there are only a handful of people here that can get a deal like that. My dealer happens to give me a deal close to that on just about any watch that they carry (no Rolex or Panerai), but sometimes I still buy from out of state to save on sales tax. The Boiler Room AD just cant survive. Im not sure if you know how expensive it is to carry a luxury watch brand in your store. It comes down to doing what you need to do to stay in business and hopefully turn a decent profit. Ive was at a dealer that told me that they didnt discount for much of the same reasons that you mentioned. They still had the same watches in their case 6 months later...and the stopped carrying JLC.

Just about every brand in this price segment (~$2000-$20,000) takes a similar hit on resale value, so your opinion should be more directed toward the industry in general. Yes, Panerai and Rolex hold their value the best, but you also pay a higher price up front. Used breitling = 50% of retail value, but you get 20% off up front, so you net a 30% loss. A PAM might sell used for 25% off list, but you probably paid full retail for it. 25% net loss there. Its not actually a huge difference.

BTW, side note: A dealer that sells to a customer for full retail wont have a customer for very long. Once that guy finds out he got shafted he'll move on to greener pastures. Its the Tourneau high turnover experience. Youll have a tough time finding somebody that gushes about how much they love their Tourneau and refuses to buy from anywhere else.

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-RJ

I had the same experience at Ben Bridge.

Based upon your reasons, you will never own a Rolex or a Panerai.

Rolex and Panerai don't need to discount because people will pay full list for them. Why? Because they have promoted and mangaged their brand to that degree. People who WANT those brands will PAY whatever the cost is to own one.

Breitling is not there yet. It must be very frustrating for Omega and Breitling to see Panerai come along as a player in the 2000's (I realize they've been around for YEARS, but not the force they are now) and SURPASS them in brand cache in less than a decade. How did they do this? By controlling production, not allowing discounts, and price increases.

IF there is a price increase, it's a good move for Breitling. Now they need to clean up their dealers and stop this nonsense discounting. If they want to turn Breitling into Rolex or Panerai, its a step they must take...

my superavenger came in. i wasnt gonna buy it for a few months, but to save $500? yup, i ordered it now.

store ordered 20 last week when we hear the price was goin up

Perhaps they're waiting to see how Omega's changes pan out. Raising prices, seriously reducing the number of ADs (which will in turn cut down on discounts), opening more boutiques, and laying the smack down on the gray market may help Omega, or it may hurt them. It remains to be seen.

boutiques almost never make money, they are almost always operated at a loss, but they are considered advertising, so its an expense.

Is it because they don't sell jewelry? I hear they don't discount so it must be the small sales volume.

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Regards,

Peter

BREITLING for Bentley Motors T & Mark VI, Aerospace
ROLEX Submariner Ceramic116610LN
OMEGA Plantet Ocean 8500 42mm Orange arabics
OCEAN7 LM-3

fact is most jewelry stores make their money on jewelry, watches are supplemental. tourneu is the only all watch store i know, and they sell some accessories too. average dealer markup is 40 point to list, so after a 20 to 25 percent deal, its closer to 15. thats crap. take into account the stores overhead and expense for a good staff, you need to sell a TON of watches to make any money. you sell the watches to get the guy in who buys diamonds and gold for the wife, its where all the money is made.