The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Hi All,

I am in the process of buying a Zenith Defy Classic Aero. It has an El Primero movement. I've always wanted a watch with this movement incorporated. Somehow, I've just neverf got round to it.

The watch has been sent to me on appro. I love the watch but I have one issue. When I first received the Defy I couldn't get the Start/Stop button to work repeatedly. It was very intermittent. I rang the seller and he said that the movement had to be close to fully wound or this will happen. He explained that he had rang Zenith when he first got the watch because he had the same issue.

Has anyone else heard of this? Is there any way I can get round it other than keeping the watch fully wound.

I have to say that it now seems to be working perfectly. I do understand quite a bit about mechanical movements and issues such as this, or the watch stopping if the chronograph is started or gets to one minute, etc can occur.

Any other thoughts, opinions and experirences with the El Primero movement would be gratefully received also.

Many Thanks.

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I haven't heard of it, and I haven't experienced it personally.

That said, I do have an El Primero currently undergoing warranty repairs because the date stopped working (no I didn't change it in the danger zone). I have found the accuracy to be very good, but the high beat movement can result in more frequent servicing.

I've never owned an El Primero powered piece, but I've never heard of any particular issues with it. If anything it's most often spoken about in hushed tones as being potentially the finest chronograph movement ever made. The El Primero has been around since the mid '60's (so in between the ETA 2824 and the ETA 2892) and in the same way as the ETA's any issues have basically been ironed out with it. The only thing I've ever heard is that the El Primero needs more rotation that most 28,800 movements to keep wound..... but that's it.

Obviously as with anything mechanical, the odd issue will occur with a proportion of units, so I can only assume that the one you are looking at Ricardo has been unfortunate.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

I think the seller is either giving or receiving nonsense. A general issue with El Primero chono function?? That's just ridiculous. I guess that's why Rolex put it in the Daytona for so long - unreliable.

The Defy range was a huge Zenith error. Heads rolled. Zenith bought back my AD's entire stock of Defys only after many couldn't be moved at 1/2 price.

I had a Defy 43 and enjoyed it but most of the Defy crowd, especially the Extremes, were just bizarre and counter to the zenith model in every way.

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SHARKMAN

1969 for the El Primero I think Driver8 rather than "mid '60s"

I just heard that mine is headed back to Switzerland for repairs as they can't handle it in North America, so something to consider if there are problems.

Incidentally, La Swiss, the largest watch retailer in Canada, and owned by the same company that distributes Zenith (and Breitling) in Canada just had a big blow up with Zenith. Zenith asked to take some of the watches back to ship to the Far East to meet demand and the parent company pulled every single Zenith and shipped it back to the company. I know that Canada isn't a huge market, but that may make Zeniths a little easier to find for a while as there is currently no Canadian retailer.

ricardo

I had a Defy Chrono Aero for a little while. Fantastic watch, I only sold it because I just couldn't get it to sit quite right on my wrist. I don't have particularly fond memories of it, but that is only because of the bath I took on reselling it.

I only had it for a few months so mine was by no means a long-term test, but it never missed a beat. Timekeeping was very accurate and the chrono worked faultlessly (I did use the chrono quite a lot because it was summer and I was BBQing).

@Roff - well they started developing it in the mid-60's so that counts for me!

@Otto - did it not sit right on your wrist due to the lack of fine adjustment of the bracelet? I was actually watching a Defy Aero on eBay recently (No reserve auction that went for under £2k GBP ) but the lack of fine adjustment on the bracelet really puts me off. I'm very picky about how my watches fit - they need to be just right, not too tight and not too loose, so unless you are incredibly lucky and find it fits perfectly with just link removal, you are totally out of luck. I was lucky with the Omega Seamaster but at least they have half links. Personally I think it's absolutely pathetic when watch companies provide bracelets that can only be adjusted by a minimum of one whole link. It shows a level of "can't be bothered" IMO.

That really is a deal breaker for me, no matter how great a watch is. And I've never found an AD that will size a watch before youve paid and therefore committed to buying it.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

Thank You for Your feedback Gents.

The good news is that the chronograph functions have worked flawlessly in the last 20 hours. Incidentally, I have been in communication with the seller and he said that he never used the chronograph function. Maybe it was simply lack of use. As a good will gesture he has offered to pay for a service on the watch.



I think that Zenith needed something like the Defy and Theirry Nataf. From what I have read their sales were plummeting at the beginning of the decade.

I personally have always liked the Defy models (except the open which just looks like some goofy kid with braces...but that is relevant to all open models). I think the timing was unfortunate for the release of this model. It came out a year before we hit a global recession. Suddenly, every one wanted classy looking watches that were an investment for a long time.

I have also heard issues of the Defy range not selling well and residuals being horrendous. Either the seller of this example took the hit or got a great deal (I'm thinking the latter because he knows his stuff and is no mug) because I am effectively getting it for 60% off retail. Still not a great deal but I can swallow it because I love the watch.

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@Otto - Thanks for your feedback. I'm sorry to hear you had to sell one of these great watches simply because it didn't fit.



There are half links on the Defy bracelet. I seem to have got a nice fit on my 6.5" wrist. I'm not too bothered about it moving around a little bit. Too tight does my head in though. The other option is that Zenith do a very nice rubber strap for this watch. I have the watch on appro still until tomorrow. I really hope I don't find any other issues with it because I am totally taken by the feel and aesthetics. However, I do appreciate that my taste in watches isn't "run of the mill".

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I didn't know they did half links for it. Even so, I still think it's hit or miss if it fits just right. Like I say, I got incredibly lucky with the Omega SMP, whereby it fitted perfectly, but most watches without fine adjustment give me problems. Too tight it's obviously very uncomfortable, and too loose and it flaps around my hand like a ladies bracelet!

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Driver8

Site Moderator

True for me too. But I must say the defy 43 on bracelet worked well. Something about the make and style of the bracelet made it fit without slipping or the head flopping. in general I'm with you - there is no justicication for lack of a micro adjustment. I really like the Breguet Marine Big Date on the bracelet - but it doesn't even have half links! Nothing. And in the end I did not buy it for that very reason - way too large or way too tight.

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SHARKMAN

Going back to your origina thoughts on this Mr Driver: When I lived in the South of the UK I became very friendly with and trusted by the Manager of an ADs there.

If I showed an interest in a watch he knew it was genuine. He would resize the watch for me before any purchase was agreed and, get this, he used to let me walk around outside for a little while.

This was so useful. I got to see the watch in a true light and also found out if it was comfortable.

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That's great if an AD will do that for you. Unfortunately, the one AD I know well enough to attempt that with doesn't sell Zenith. In fact my nearest Zenith dealer is a good 70 miles away.

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if most AD's would possibly resize a watch for you if you basically said to them, "I'll definitely buy it, but only on the proviso that it fits". If it's the difference between them making a sale worth several thousand pounds, and not making a sale at all, then I reckon most would bite the bullet and resize it. (I dunno about the walking around outside bit though! )

But none of that would be a problem if manufacturers would just put a fine adjustment capability on the clasp!

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Driver8

Site Moderator

I didn't know that about the Marine Big Date...that's a deal breaker. Sad because it is a beautiful watch, and the bracelet really looks nice.

What is the justification for NOT having half links or mirco adjustment on these types of watches? I don't understand the logic behind producing a watch that lists for $15K without having the ability to make fine adjustments to it.

If we ever get to meet up one day I'll happily bring mine along with the spare links and some tools so you can try it on and have a good play with it.

Oh yeah...........I decided to buy it.............I love it.

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