The Breitling Watch Source Forums

I thought I would share an experience with the group here that really had me excited to learn of. While at my watch repair shop, The Last Windup in Bozeman Montana, Karen the manager was informing me that by the next time I get back from Iraq they will have moved to their new location just about a half a block down the street. She told me that Dave's new studio will also be housed in the new larger location since it afforded them a larger space and a clean room to perform his mastery of repairs in. This was great news I thought, but as she continued, she went on to explain that the new location was now home to the Bozeman Watch Company who manufactures their own line of COSC certified watches.....my jaw hit the floor as I had no idea that there was a watch maker anywhere near Montana, much less virtually in my own backyard. With this information at hand and a few more hours to kill before I headed back to the house 60 miles down the road, I just had to walk down the street to see what this was all about.

I was immediately made welcome by the staff as I walked into a boutique that made you feel at home with it's comfortable decorum which included over-sized leather chairs, comfortable mood lighting in just the right places, larger than life framed photos of some of their products new and old, and just a couple of showcases.

After a few moment of studying the framed photos along the wall and admiring some of the pieces they have produced I proceeded to pick the brain of the gentleman that had stood patiently by letting me take it all in. It was quickly apparent to me that even with my limited WIS knowledge, much of it newly acquired thanks to you guys here, that I had a leg up on the poor guy. In his defense I have to point out that he had only been with the company 2 weeks and really was not hired as a salesman, so I got to hand it to him for being honest. At any rate it felt good to pass on some things I've learned here to a newer WIS than myself and in the process learn more about this company from him.

They are a very small company producing very limited runs of each model which house modified ETA, Val Granges, and Valjoux movements which are then sent off to be COSC certified after modifications are completed. Most of their watches are themed around something relevant to Montana in one way, form, or fashion which I naturally find appealing. Upon close inspection they appear to be a very well finished product that is both functional, durable, elegant, and worthy of wearing proudly. With their very limited production runs of anywhere from 10-100 pieces, you can be assured that you will not find these on the wrist of every swinging arm around. With such small production runs one would think the prices would be quite high, but actually at 5-8k they seem to be within reason given their uniqueness. They also are very generous in providing a number of quality Caiman Croc straps or their own brand of hand stitched saddle leather straps in a variety of colors as well as their own in-house designed SS bracelet with each piece. If I remember correctly when you place an order for pre-production runs you get your choice of 3, but don't hold me to this cuz I'm old and feeling the effects of too much fun in the 70's.

Anyhow I thought I would share this unique experience with ya'll and give ya something to ponder over since all of us here have an affinity for all things horological and unique. I just never in a million years would have thought that there was a quality watch manufacturer with 1000 miles of Montana, much less COSC certified watches made in the US of A.

Oh and as a side note, as Montana is a place that many celebrities seem to favor getting away from the rest of society, it seems that a number of them have examples of these time pieces in their own collections as well. The gentleman I was talking to mentioned that David Letterman has 5 of them in his collection to name one and they even designed one model after Boston's famed all star pitcher and two-time World Series winner Josh Beckett. Drop in their website which I posted below if ya wanna have a peek at them and feel free to give your opinions, good or bad.

http://bozemanwatch.com/default.asp

_________________

Isn't that something! I'll be sure to check it out!

I wonder if their USS Montana model has anything to do with the Tennessee-class cruiser of the same name or the never-built Tennessee-class battleship.

_________________


- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

Looking at the website I can't claim to love them, but don't hate them either. But those prices are seriously high IMO for a small non-Swiss company running some pretty standard internals.

_________________
Driver8

Site Moderator

for the money these guys are asking, i can think of a lot of major swiss brands i could get for the same or less. no thanks

I like them but don't love them. I do like that it's an American company, even though the internals are Swiss which I think is a plus.

_________________
"Leave the gun, take the cannoli."

Interesting... and in the middle of Montana~! Thanks for sharing...

not too bad looking pieces, but nothing that really stands out...

_________________
"I don't got the bright watch I got the right watch" -Jay Z

Well now on the pricing issue and them using pretty standard internals.....on the surface it may sound like they are on the high side, but when you put it in perspective, what they are doing is no different than many if not most other well known high end watch makers. Take Panerai for instance, the PAM 24 which has the OPIII (which I personally want), it is based on the Valjoux 7750-P1 and features, also they make higher production runs of I believe 1000, maintain and utilize a large network of international AD's, have a massive advertisement campaign compared to this small upstart, and yet this one model commands a MSRP of $6800.

I'm just using this as a middle of the road price point to compare with, but my point is I don't really think their price points are that out of line with the rest of the industry, given that they produce nowhere near the numbers of the "Big Boys"; therefore obviously they do not command as much leverage in obtaining lower costs on their raw materials.

I am trying to remain objective here and not stand up for their company based on it being solely in my state, but again I have to be honest that I do take pride in that fact that I am glad to see an American watch company in the mix.

( Warning: Patriotic rant below )

At one time, the US dominated the watch making industry and contributed many of the new innovations and standards of that era which are still in use today. I think it's a sad state of affairs as an American that there are not more American companies out there that produce fine time pieces. I think that our country has the where with all and capability to produce just as fine a product as any overseas company. It may sound like I'm on the patriotic bandwagon, which I must confess I am, but in all reality BWC is doing no different than a number of other companies out there, which we as consumers have no issue with paying the rather comparable prices they demand for a product that is using basically the same internals. I for one as an American applaud their effort to enter into this foreign dominated market place and wish them well in becoming established. It would be nice to see us return to some of our former glory as a country and get away from all this out sourcing that has undermined our country for too long. I'm old enough to remember the days when things were labeled "Made in USA", it was something to take pride in and represented quality to us and our international partners.

Whew! ok enough with the flag waving campaign, sorry I had to get that off my chest.

(End of Patriotic rant)

An argument could be made that the internals are not American made so it's not really an American made product, which would be technically true. Using that as a basis for argument, then one could also argue that Panerai's are not really an Italian product, Cartier is not a French product, A. Lange & Söhne is not a German product, and Breguet is not a French product, just to name a few. The reality is that many if not most watch makers today produce watches that utilize fairly standard base units which they in turn decorate, rework to their specifications to one degree or another and then label it as their own. BWC is no different in this regard and should not be penalized any more than the rest of the players on the playing field.

In regards to the limited numbers they produce, this is also an aspect that appeals to me as a consumer, because every Tom, Dick, and Harry won't have one of these on their wrists. That being said, there are only 2 models they currently produce that appeal to me at this time, the Snowmaster and the SmokeJumper GMT. That's not to say I am rushing out the door to place my order, but I do find these 2 pieces attractive and am giving some serious consideration to adding a SmokeJumper GMT to my collection. At any rate I think they merit watching (no pun intended) as I am sure they will continue to expand the line of products they offer.

On the other hand there is no denying the fact that there is a huge selection out there competing within these price points for our hard earned dollars/pounds/euros, but I appreciate the fact that there is now a choice that is actually manufactured on this side of the pond. Who knows, maybe they will develop their own in-house movement or come up with some other new innovation that sets horology on it's ear, but I find it great to see one of our own taking to the playing field again.

(*Disclaimer: The author of this thread is neither an employee nor a stockholder of BWC and derives no monetary compensation, discounts, or gratis products from BWC. The views expressed are the views of those of the author and not sanctioned by BWC or necessarily reflect the views of BWC.*)

_________________

As I said to you by PM a week or so back when you mentioned, I don't think that the value is there. If you want a US company to be proud of then look at RGM, a huge step ahead of Bozeman in my opinion.

In terms of a comparison between Panerai (or anyone else), there's a big difference between using an ETA / Valjoux movement and using an ETA / Valjoux based movement.

As always I definitely defer to your vast wealth of knowledge and expertise on this subject. Would you please explain the difference of the above in regard to comparison. From all I've been able to find on BWC's internals, they don't say Based on, but imply the use of Valjoux and Valgranges movments....am I missing something here? If so I would love to learn more in this regard. That is one of the reasons I enjoy this site so much, I get to learn from those of you that are willing to share and educate those of us behind the WIS curve.

Referencing value, this is something that is subjective in relevance to the individual consumer. The fact is, one customer will feel he got his value out of a product which is clearly his own perception, yet another customer may feel slighted in receiving value out of the same product, again his own perception and therefore making the issue of value subjective relative to the consumer. The real test of value is how the overall market reacts to a given product based on it's perception of that product, this is usually reflected in the growing/waning demand of said product.

I do however find it interesting to see such a young company that opened it's doors with only 1 model to show in 2005, achieving profitability in its third year of operation, and it's continued ability to maintain a 30%-plus revenue growth annually. They appear to have a sound clear cut business plan which is allowing them to reach their annual goals in a time when many companies are struggling. All this while trying to enter a tough market that is primarily dominate by overseas manufacturers. Maybe it's just my innate heritage that many of us Americans possess to root for the underdog in a fight or just may patriotism coming out, in either case I think they are a company of some merit worthy of keeping an eye on in the future.

Plus they are just one more option out there contributing the types of products we love to wear, collect, and talk about.

Lastly I reference the below link in support of a few of my above statements.

http://www.sramanamitra.com/2010/06/02/deal-radar-2010-bozeman-watch-co/

I will also do some looking at the RGM line as well as you suggested Roff, thank you for that lead and I highly respect you and your knowledge in this field sir.

_________________

Bozeman use ETA (Valjoux movements are now branded ETA) or Valgranges movements out of the box - they don't do anything with them. To put that in context I can buy a single non chrono ETA movement for well under $200, and a chrono for $300 or so. That's me buying individual pieces (although granted not chronometer grade) so you can imagine how much less Bozeman pays. That's all they do - they then case up and their done.

Breitling, Panerai, etc on the other hand take the ebauche (the movement kit) and replace / modify a number of the ingredients to create 'ETA based' movements.

Just to add on the comparison with Panerai and other brands who use ETA's as base movements - with those brands you are also paying for the well known and respected brand name and the kudos (perceived or otherwise) that goes with owning a Panerai or Breitling, etc.

With Bozeman, you aren't paying for a household name......... which is one of the prime reasons that small start-up companies generally don't charge the earth. As Roff said, it begs the question for me as to where the value is with these watches. Sure they're all limited edition, but then so is my Lum Tec at only 175 pieces worldwide, and I picked that up for around £500.

Bascially, as an impartial observer (i.e. I'm not from Montana! ) while they're not really my "thing", I can't see anything wrong with them at all...... apart from the price.

_________________
Driver8

Site Moderator

Driver8, very well put and point taken my friend. I don't want to make the wrong impression here either that just because these guys are in my backyard so to speak, that I am blindly beating a drum for them. Albeit that there is some "Cool" factor in that they are located just up the road from me, you and Roff do pose a valid point.

Patriotism and local home boyz pride factor aside, I still find it difficult to drop 5k or more on any watch at this time, as 5k is at the upper level of my present comfort zone. Last week's acquisition of that LE Montbrillant Legende was a hard trigger for me to pull, but I really loved the piece and yes, perceived value did play into my decision due to Breitling's reputation. Would I do the same if it was BWC?...probably not, but then again I do like the looks of the SmokeJumper GMT as well as the Snowmaster (out of my current comfort zone).

The reality is that there are several other higher end pieces I would like to get before I can seriously consider adding a BWC to my collection. All of which fall in that upper level comfort zone or a bit beyond for me unfortunately. I also really want a chance to get to meet the guy behind the curtain at BWC (Christopher Wardle) and pick his brain the next time I'm in town. It's my hope that armed with the knowledge I acquire from associating with such knowledgeable WIS folks here, I can get the opportunity to have a good informative conversation with him and not come off as such a "Newb".

I still have to say though that it's good to see another American watch company enter into the fray again after such a long absence from the market.

_________________