The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Hi all,
I was on holiday recently and while ogling some expensive watches I spotted a Baume et Mercier Riviera REF.8755.
I tried it on and have to say I was very very taken with it .
If I was able to afford another watch , it would have been a Breitling Blackbird on the black ocean racer strap,
At first glance this Riveria looked almost like an A&P Royal Oak.

Does anyone have any experience of B&M pieces or even of the Riveria range ?
Are they as accurate as Brietlings ?
The guy in the shop said that Breitling use the same mechanism in some of their pieces.

Any info appreciated,
B

Technically the guy in the shop could be right, insofar as many premium watches use ETA-based movements. However, most watch manufacturers modify the ebauches before putting them in their watches, so there are technical differences between them from brand to brand. Also, if I understand correctly (I'm pretty new to all this), if a movement is not chronometer grade, it is not capable of the level of accuracy required for COSC certification. ETA has several grades within each model of movement, chronometer grade being the highest and most accurate. The movements themselves are not certified coming from ETA; that's up to the watch manufacturer to do. However, it is unlikely that any manufacturer obtaining a chronometer grade ebauche from ETA would not get it certified and then label it as such on the watch; if it's not certified, they can't charge certified prices for it. Given that few, if any, B&M watches appear to be COSC certified, I'm inclined to think the movements they're using are not on the same level as those in certified chronometers. That's a guess, though, and I will certainly defer to the experts here. (I'm only answering because I saw your post sitting here unanswered and felt bad.)

As for B&M styles, I find some appealing, but honestly, I find many of them to be derivative, rather than definitive. What I mean is, rather than establishing their own unmistakable image, they seem to emulate the images of other, better known brands. The Classima Executives line strikes me as trying hard to resemble certain Patek Phillipe models. As you pointed out, the Riviera line resembles AP's Royal Oak somewhat. And the now defunct Capeland line seemed to be veering towards Breitling and Omega territory somewhat, or possibly Zenith. Personally, if I want a watch that looks like a given brand, I go with that brand, if at all possible.

Having said all of that, I think B&M is a respectable maker, and has some nice and interesting pieces. I don't mean to dissuade you completely; I'm just offering my .02 on the matter...since you asked.

Well in terms of ETA movements, many use chronometer grade and don't certify them - they buy high accuracy movements for less customer complaints but don't send them for certification.

In terms of B&M, they're solid well made pieces, although the movements are largely generic, I just don't see any watches that particularly appeal - I think if you save the 8755 alongside an AP ROO you would feel differently.

Thanks, Roff. I have to laugh a bit here, because we were having this very discussion in another thread just the other day, and the consensus seemed to be that if the company wasn't touting it being a certified chronometer movement, it probably was using a lesser grade. I had asked, because one company was offering two similar versions of the same watch, with the same calibre, but only one was listed as certified. I was wondering if the non-certified movement could be the same as the certified one, only not submitted for certification. Most people thought that was not the case, but that it was more likely the non-chronometer was using a lower grade movement in the same model range. So now I'm confused again. (Banksy, I told you I was new to all this. )

I am a fan of B&M and think that they offer a really nice dress alternative to IWC style watches. (Speaking of the Classima line). As Roff mentioned...the movements may be generic, but for a Junior WIS like myself, the ability to diversify without breaking the bank by going in-house is a nice option.

Ive always been under the impression that Top grade and Chronometer grade were very similar, with the main difference being that Chronometer grade movements were COSC certified and serial numbered to specifically identify it as a chronometer. A watch company buying a Chronometer grade ETA would be able to advertise the watch as being COSC certified. I could be wrong, but this is what ive been told.

_________________
-RJ

Chronometer grade movements are not chronometer certified.

They are designed to be capable of achieving certification, but are not submitted to COSC. ETA isn't particularly open on the differences, but it's entirely possible that a chronometer grade is simply a top grade that has been regulated by a watchmaker to COSC specs, but categorically not issued with a certificate.

The sales person (who seemed to know his stuff ) said that it had the same +6/-4 Accuracy as a Breitling .

I do take the point that they do seem to make pieces that resemble other brands.
But then it will be a long time before I could afford a Royal Oak