The Breitling Watch Source Forums

I was poking around a little on the Montblanc website, and I noticed they put out a line of watches (Star 4810), some of which are listed as certified chronometers, and some of which aren't. The standard watches (non-chronograph) all have the same movements inside, the Montblanc Calibre 4810/401, which is based on the ETA 2892. Does this mean they are all certified, or does it mean Montblanc put some of them through the certification process, and didn't with the others? If the latter, is it reasonable to assume that the non-certified movements perform just as well or as accurately as the certified ones?

A movement is only certified if it passes the COSC tests.

ETA make a number of grades of their movements (3 or 4 depending on which model). Only the highest grade is designed to be capable of achieving COSC standards, but it may still need regulating / refining prior to being sent for testing.

I don't know enough about Montblanc to know whether the non certified models still use the highest 'chronometer' grade, or whether they are a lower grade version of the movement.

It stands to reason that there are different levels of performance between the grades of movements. I've asked my AD the same thing regarding some other brands and the signifigance of the COSC cert, and he assured me up and down. Higher grade movement with proper regualation is capable of more than a lower grade movement.

I take it, then, the model number does not reflect the actual grade within that model range? In other words, is it possible for several different grades all to have the same model number?

By definition that is the case.

Is there any other way to tell the grade of a movement, other than whether or not it is certified?

AFAIK no movements are supplied as certified. Many movements have a top grade variant capable of being certified. For example a chronometer grade Valijoux 7750. I believe that many companies take this and modify or finish it to their standard, then submit it for approval. Other companies do not modify the movements at all such as Uboat, leading many to criticize their priced based on a stock movement.

Here is a link giving you greater details on one very popular movement.

http://www.chronomaddox.com/valjoux_7750_engine.html

Edit: You will have to research depending on what company & model you are wondering about, as to what they use.

Not really unless you're a watchmaker. The differences between the grades are only really noticable to the trained eye. For example, the ETA 2824 (base movement for the Breitling B17) is available in four grades - Standard, Elaboré, Top and Chronometer. The differences between the grades revolves around difference in the barrel spring, the pallet stones, the balance wheel, the hairspring and the regulator mechanism - all differences that the untrained eye would have serious difficulty in spotting.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

Very interesting stuff D8. Which of the first three grades is used, for example, for the Steelfish?

BS

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

Breitling always uses the highest grade (Chronometer).

Thanks Roff, much appreciated.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I would have thought ETA would make some kind of notation in the numbering system, such that consumers could know what it is they are actually buying. Then again, since most watch manufacturers do some sort of modification of the ebauches, and assign their own calibre numbers, we can't really rely on the ETA model numbers anyway. I guess there is something to be said, then, for going with certified chronometers. At least that way, we know we're getting the highest grade of a given movement.

I would also like to see all manufacturers be absolutely explicit and clear about what movement is in their watches. However I'm sure being frugal with the information they provide is a completely conscious decision to draw attention away from the fact that a great many very expensive watches run very common base-movements. Most of the time trying to find out what a mid-range watch is running is a complete pain in the backside, especially when you are trying to discover in-house movements. (The one saving grace is that most of the time manufacturers are very proud of their in-house movements so they tend to make a big deal out them).

It would be great to see an industry standard in some way, whereby for example a fixed number of components need to be changed for a company to give it a name other than the ETA reference. It seems that companies don't need to do anything more than change the rotor to a company branded one to be able to call it their own calibre.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

Hublot anyone?



I know that not everyone out there is a WIS nevertheless reading your post D8 before buying instead of just looking at the price list could open some eyes.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

Its been my experience that unless the grade of movement is explicitly stated, youre getting a standard grade.

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-RJ