The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Outside the WIS buyers, do "normal" buyers actually care if the movement is in-house or not?

In fact, the very vast majority of us Breitling owners, purchased Breitling BEFORE their B01 in-house movement was available, right? And that the in-house movement by itself was NOT compelling enough reason to convince us, the current, loyal Breitling owners to purchase the B01? Why would we want to purchase higher-end complications produced in-house?

If the goal is to simply create hype and publicity, going to a "moon-dust" or "volcanic-ash" or "Titanic-rust" multi-$100K watch pricing route seems to be much cheaper, and less risky corporate marketing/branding strategy. It also would not burden the consumers with picking up the tab for expensive additional investments which carries no discernible guarantee.

Finally, why would moving upmarket be desirable? How does that correlate to Breitling owners making more bottom line profit? After all, Volkswagen OWNS Porche...?

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a few Pams...

Jefferson - 'I would have to agree with mfserge. I think Breitling is fine just where they are. Speaking for the lower-middlle class I find Breitlings to be fair-priced and something that, if saved for, could be attainable.Asking Breitling to introduce all these new high-end compilation pieces would ultimately raise the price for me and I don't want that!.

I have a new-found love for timepieces, mostly thanks to this site and it's knowlagable members (especially Roff) and I can appreciate, if not ever own, an expensive compilation. And if I ever have the fortune of owning such a piece, I would have no problems picking one of the many, many brands that offer them.'

I'm finding this topic very interesting but these 2 paragraphs mirror my sentiments exactly.

Cheers

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Currently:
Avenger Skyland(Black)
Super Avenger(White)

Moved on:
Montbrillant Legende(Silver)
Panerai 312
SOHC 125th Ann. LE(Silver)
Navitimer World(Pearl)
Panerai 441

I can only go by anecdotal evidence, but given the rate with which companies have been moving to in house movements then I would say yes.

If not, the response to Swatch group's announcement that they wouldn't supply ebauches out of group any more would just result in companies buying completed movements and lowering costs.

Can't prove that though.

I kinda doubt it. Your typical person thinks a "mechanical" watch is one that has little hands instead of a display, and checks the time with their cellphone. As to people who actually own a nice watch, I think to my experience with the guy who knew absolutely nothing about his watch other than it was a Breitling. He sure as hell doesn't know what an in-house movement is. That guy just bought the watch because of the name, and that was the end of it; probably like most of the thousand guys at Oaks did with their Submariners. If a guy cares about movements at all, it seems to me that makes him a WIS, at least a WIS apprentice.

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[Witty signature here]

Agreed, I don't think 99.9% of people know what an inhouse movement is, and certainly are not willing to pay a premium for one.

Completely agree with you there. Although i would prefer to own a piece with an inhouse movement, it has never been a deal breaker, at least for me. And although i'm happy Breitling finally has an in-house movement, i have no desire to purchase a B01 just for the movement.

Some more on that...

I'm on a couple forums dedicated to videogames, another hobby of mine. Discussions come up from time to time as to whether one is a "casual gamer" or a "hardcore gamer." My answer is that if you even ponder the question, you're probably a hardcore gamer.

I kinda have the same opinion about WISs. If you know what the acronym stands for (and you're not a signifcant other or very close friend of a WIS), then you probably are one. If you care enough to ask, you're a WIS.

Or when asked if you're a WIS, you reply "Wisdom score?" in which case you're a nerd.

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[Witty signature here]

Short version: Same here.

If I were going to put money into an in-house movment, I would want it to do something special, like show the movement of the planets around the sun. That's an extreme example, but you get the idea. I've been judging the B01 on looks thus far, so this just occured to me, but the B01 doesn't do anything different than any polished Valjoux 7750. You've got your date, chrono quarter seconds, 30-minute totalizer, and 12-hour totalizer; that's the ubiquitous chronograph. That's what my Chrono Superocean does, except I get the day of the week with that too. A Skyracer, for example, is more unique than the B01, a lot more unique.

So what's my incentive to get a B01? Sturdiness, functionality, precision, and aesthetics are, I think, actually pretty good criteria on which to judge a fine timepiece that I also use as a tool watch. Going by that criteria, the B01 comes out ahead of my current collection ony in one area: Aesthetics. And that's not the physical appearance of the watch, that's the more intangible artistic boon of it being an in-house movement. I appreciate the artistry of a mechanical watch of course, or else I'd just buy a Luminox to take to work. However, it's only a tiny, tiny increase over what I already have, in my opinion. That's not enough to make me select the B01 over any other Breitling model.

I guess it makes sense that Breitling would produce a straight-forward in-house model before doing anything fancy. To my thinking, though, it would make more sense to create some high-end, custom movements (as others in the thread have suggested) rather than converting the current line up to in-house.

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[Witty signature here]

I don't think Breitling created an in house movement to do anything 'different' than a 7750 as you say. They created an in house movement out of a need because of Swatch Group's constant threats over the years (since 02') to end supply of movements to competing watch companies. I think Breitling made a wise move in creating an in house movement. Look what happened to Tag...they spend a boat load of cash on marketing rather than investing in their watch making...and what happened?? They were forced to buy the rights to an Asian movement. I'm not saying Asian movements are bad but is that what we want? The words "Swiss Made" mean something to me.

I am not a fan of the B01 AT ALL!! But, I'm very happy that Breitling has taken the steps necessary for long term success regardless of what Swatch decides to do with their movements. I'd prefer to see Breitling continue to invest in their own movement rather then spend money on high end complications.

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"I don't own any watches, I just lease them"

So is that what the B01's about? No more ETA?

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[Witty signature here]

This is morphing into a little bit of a specialised debate about only one aspect of my post, but it's interesting.

The one thing that you didn't mention as a differentiator Palantas was the longer power reserve. One of the 'problems' with ETA / Valjoux movmeents is that they can't be worn as a weekday watch - they'll stop running over the weekend if ignored. The 70 hour reserve on the B01 overcomes that and the 60+ hour reserve is seen as a significant step up in the industry.

I completely understand the perspective that many people don't know or care about what's inside the watch, and while I accept the logic, I also have to look at how much money is being invested by virtually every major watch brand into in house movements. Most customers don't care, but I wonder if the same is true of most money. I received the International Watch Guide to Retailers last week and the section on La Swiss, the largest dedicated watch retail chain in Canada (and the main BReitling AD) said that their average customer owned 2 - 5 watches - those customers will certainly start to consider in house, even if it doesn't act as a major factor in the decision.

Bottom line there is that there is too much money being spent across the entire industry for it not to be a factor.


In terms of ETA / Valjoux movement availability, Swatch group have said that they will stop selling ebauches (movement kits) outside of the group by the end of 2010. They'll still sell completed movements.

That leaves their customers with four choices:

1) Buy completed movements and give up on any modification
2) Find an alternate ebauche supplier - Sellita would be an obvious choice given that they effectively have equivalents to some of the major ETA / Valjoux movements
3) Produce the ETA / Valjoux designs in house (trademark protection expired decades ago)
4) Produce in house movements

Breitling are definitely doing 3 and 4 and I suspect that they are buying some Sellita plates to support 3.


Incidentally, I know from personal actions and from other conversations, that there is already some awareness of my post at Breitling, including at the executive level.

Cool! please keep us updated!

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SA Blue Dial Silver Subs Pro 2

So maybe Mr. Hayek did Breitling (and the industry) a favor by refusing to deliver ETA movements extra-Swatch group, no?

Maybe they wouldn't have taken the risk to make such an investment for an in-house movement if their backs were not against a wall.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

Not sure that they are up against a wall - this has been coming for 10 years now.

It's certainly been a catalyst for the timing of a number of brands move to in house / partial in house, but a large part is also that when the move works other brands have to follow suit to avoid having a competitive disadvantage.

There are also a number of advantages for a brand to move in house - better control of parts, easier quality control, less reliance on suppliers where you are only one customer in a long line, etc.

Upon reading Roffs comments again- for the 2nd time, I have to say that his comments are becoming more and more legitimate the more I look at them and understand what he is saying. Breitling would do well to look at whats been written by Roff. Most of us have a great affinity for the brand, but the company needs to move forward- and a bit upmarket from where its at the moment. Comments made about the different ranges are absolutely spot on. And the stuff about advancing the technology and the offerings are absolutely correct In my opinion. Fundamentally, I agree that Breitling should be using IWC and JLC as the standard that has to be aimed for! Breitling must give us a chance to move upward- I have a B01 the question is - Whats next? Breitling have to give us something abit different with some new functionality of course it always has to be in the context of the Breitling tradition of styling.

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Breitling Chronomat BO1 Riviera Blue Dial Stainless Steel Case and Pilot Bracelet