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Without thinking or debating a new Brand watch after owning a Breitling for any length of time would anyone out of hand buy another Breitling without even looking. ?

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SUPER AVENGER 563 AIRFORCE BLUE
WHITE SUBS, PRO11 BRACELET

Kentucky Oaks was yesterday; lots of dressed up people there. Guy in the box next to me was wearing a Superocean with a blue dial. I was wearing my Chrono Superocean at the time.

I remarked, "Hey, I have a Superocean." He gave me a puzzled look. I pointed at his watch, saying, "Your watch; I also have a Superocean, with a black dial." Continuing to look at me with a mystified expression, the guy says, "Huh? This is a Breitling."

He didn't know the name of the model of the watch he was wearing. Let's think about it: The word "Superocean" is written on the dial.

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[Witty signature here]

and i'm sure there are lots of people Breitiling owners like this one in the world....

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Breitling Antares B10047
Breitling Chronomat B13050
Breitling Chronomat A13050.1 - pilot bracelet
Breitling Chronomat Blackbird A13050.1 - serie spéciale
Breitling Avenger Seawolf E17370
Breitling Chronomat EVO A13356 - pilot bracelet

I'm going to ignore the B01 comments - I specifically said that this post wasn't about that.

To address some of the points raised....

We'll get a better idea on sales later this year when the COSC announces 2009 numbers - that's as close to Breitling sales figures as we will get. Rumour has it that 2009 production was down 30%.

I am advocating a move upmarket in Breitling, but I am not advocating a move away from 'entry level luxury' or however you define Breitling's entry level models. I am suggesting expansion, not movement if that makes sense. I am suggesting a reduction in discount, but that needn't be a lift in pricing. I don't know what Breitling sells to distributors for, but distributors sell to ADs for generally 55% of list (increasing today in the US), leaving plenty of room for discount. It's the discount that I have issues with for long term value, not necessarily the ultimate selling price.

I'll accept that there are many buyers who don't know the model that they wear. I am thinking that the 'average' buyer may buy 2 or 3 luxury watches in their lifetime as tastes change - arbitrarily let's say 25 - 30, 40 - 45 and retirement. I would like to see Breitling offer people the chance to stay with the brand through those phases as well as offering something for the young active lifestyle, the CEO, and all things inbetween - again, expansion.

I'll accept that Breitling has limited resources as an independent, but you could easily rationalise existing models to allow for that increased diversity, and some models will always be small production niche ranges - Zenith Academy is an obvious comparison range.

In terms of the comments about tourbillons and DBs not necessarily supporting the 'instruments for professionals' mantra, I can see that, but I don't see them as incompatible. Tourbillons are showpieces anyway - the headline grabbers and the pieces for the ultra high end buyer, so they play a role there. I also think we need to consider what 'professionals' means these days. I see myself as a 'professional'. I am not in a profession that requires a timepiece with specific functions, but can Breitling not produce something that suits my profession? Maybe that is a dress watch that suits the boardroom (or at least the image that I have to portray at public speaking engagements).

Hope that answers some of the points (and provides more fodder for debate).

Congrats, your 10,000th post, it was an enjoyable read. Agree with your points especially a retrograde movement; I'd love to see that happen. I have a question tho.... why do you say that Breitling needs to make an accurate moonphase? I am a big fan of the Monbrillant Olympus and the moonphase is spot on. A four year perpetual at that price point is a great offering. The Bentley Mark VI also has an accurate moonphase although overpriced in my opinion.

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"I don't own any watches, I just lease them"

Congrats on your 10k, Roff.
It's great to have you here.
Great post, but I really doubt that it will ring some bells at the company (hope I'm wrong).

Most moonphases in watches, and all Breitling moonphases are inaccurate.

They work on the principle of a 29.5 day moon cycle (the wheel has 59 teeth and rotates once every 59 days - hence two moons on the disk). The problem is that the moon doesn't operate on a 29.5 day cycle, it operates on a 29.54 day cycle on average (it actually varies). That may not sound like much (it's a little under an hour per cycle), but it means that a moonphase watch is out by a day within 2 years. The accurate moonphase is considered to be a high watchmaking complication and can increase accuracy to less than a day in over 70 years.

Does it make a practical difference, not really, but then neither does a tourbillon, equation of time, etc.

I did not know that. Interesting.

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10,000 posts! So generous with your time and insight, long live the King!

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Chronomat Evo (White, Arabics)
Avenger Seawolf (Black, Batons) INCOMING?

I get what you're saying but if we want an accurate moonphase then we'll have to pay 3x the price of an Olympus. Look at Martin Braun, the Meteorite is $20k and is accurate for 122+ years. If we want all these additional features from our Brand then the entire lineup will see a price increase to compensate for the R&D of all these additional functions. I'd prefer then stay true to the identity and keep costs to somewhat affordable levels.

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"I don't own any watches, I just lease them"

I think that you are missing my point.

I am not suggesting that the calibre 19 pieces disappear, I am suggesting that Breitling introduce additional pieces at the higher end of the range with additional complications - as I said in an earlier clarification - expansion of the range. No need for calibre 19 to go anywhere, no different to calibre 19 and calibre 29 living side by side with the 29 being 3x the price because of one extra cam.

I think you (Roff) should buyout Breitling. Problem solved!!! I've got a few bucks I can throw in as an investor.

Well, that's an intriguing idea, although realistically I would need partners that know the industry. I know watches, and I know business, but I don't have any insider's knowledge of the Swiss watch industry. That said, if I allow myself to dream I know exactly who I would approach to be my CEO, and then let that person build their executive team.

Realistically it isn't going to happen because there is no way that I could fund it so it would need a major investment firm to provide the money and they would want their own Chairman. If I can bring nothing to the table - I can't finance and I can't run, why would anyone need me?

The best I could hope for was some kind of consultant type role.

Still, I'm always open to offers

Thanks for contributing to the passion.

Roff... I hear what your saying. You want new and exciting pieces from a technical stand point, not just aesthetically.

I think the problem with this is that pricing wise Breitling has backed them self into a corner. They already represent the top of the pricing food chain for ETA based models. Look at the Chronomatic QP. What's the list on that? Like $50K?

For the complications your talking about they would need to charge a fortune compared to there existing range. And very few buyers will pay Patek prices for a Breitling, no mater how advanced it is.

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This is a Rochefoucauld, the thinnest water-resistant watch in the world. Singularly unique, sculptured in design,hand-crafted in Switzerland.
In Philadelphia it's worth Fifty bucks.

Congratulations on number 10,000. It, like all the others to date, was very well done. There might be more words in this one post than in the previous 9,999

I couldn't agree more with your broadest points. I would genuinely like to have Breitling be a part of my collection for years and years to come, but for that to be a reality, there needs to be the "next step" timepiece to aspire to. Breitling, as it stands, has no such piece, nor does there seem to be a dedication to make such a piece a reality. I believe in the theory that " a rising tide lifts all boats" and a true investment into haute horology would do just that for all watches in the Breitling line. It would add the the nuts-and-bolts appeal as well as the overall cache' of the brand.

There needs to be a step-change in the way things are done and it needs to happen yesterday. I, for one, will not follow Breitling if it turns into a Tag Heuer-esqe brand - just not an option. Here's hoping that a thread like this will serve to inspire big changes at Breitling.

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“The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.” - Albert Einstein