The Breitling Watch Source Forums

The first thing I must say is that I am very excited for your Roff. Considering how many times I have read on here that you should make your own watch. I love the idea of a diver or a dress watch. There are so many ways to express yourself in those models especially if you design your own case as well. The price range with a max of 1500 sounds about right for an entry watch and will help them sell outside of here because most people who want a mechanical watch don't see the reason to run out and spend 3000 and up. I think that the addition of a display back would greatly improve the desireability of your first model for a few reasons. The average person who would like a mechanical watch at a entry level price wants to feel like they have something special. Remember most people who are in the market for a more expensive watch than a macy's special battery powered luxury edition want to see something for the money. It makes them feel better about the ammount they are spending and with that in mind I think a more bold design will help you make your nitch. Of course it can't be way out there or it will become a shelf stocker. I think and again I am a complete novice on watches compaired to most on here that a chrono diver with display back is a great begining because of how bold and popular they are with the younger crowd as well as the older generations these days. And because of that they will be seen by more people. While I love dress watches they really don't have that much of a place in everyday life except if you wear a suit and tie to work. As for myself I spent an extreme ammount of money so I wouldn't have to think about a suit unless it is a wedding. But that is me. Anyway I have seen some of your taste in the time I have been here and I am sure this will be one hell of a watch when you are done. I am sure you will sell a great ammount just from recommendations here, but you want your name out there for all to see! I know I can't wait to see how this turns out and I wish you the best. If anyone deserves to be able to design and sell their own watch it is you. For all the help you provide on here I am sure everyone wishes you the best and will support your line as it grows.

Oh by the way I WANT ONE!

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Breitling Bentley 6.75
White Baton Super Avenger
Rolex DSSD

Thanks guys for the comments.

I'm going to keep my ideas to myself for now, but I guarantee that this isn't going to be a pure cash grab. I do want this to be a commercial venture, and I would be more than happy to make a small (or large) fortune from it, but first and formeost this is about a watch that is going to be a visual standout.

I can't (and won't) make my first piece some weird and bizarre Greubel Forsey inspired watch because that would be biting off way more than I could chew, but I do intend to make something that is visually different within the constraints of a practical case and non modified movement.

I am resigned to losing money on the first run because of the investment necessary, and that likely means that the case will have to form a platform for a number of subsequent models in order to leverage that investment. That's OK because if I design the case to be able to support chrono and non chrono movements I still have considerable flexibility.

Swiss movements are easy to acquire (although price becomes an issue if you want decorated movements), Swilss made dials are a little harder, and I'm not sure about Asian dials, but we'll see - there are a few other options. I have no intention of using one of the generic case manufacturers and that is currently my design focus (and yes I have been learning to use a vector graphics program). I would like to be able to find a Canadian company willing to work with me on the cases (Carlos, I love the University idea) because it gives me greater control over the process. I haven't even begun to think about sources for sapphire crystals and AR coating.

There are a few principles that I won't compromise, even if that means that the price has to go up - I won't put a DB on a non decorated movement, I won't use mineral crystal, and I will use AR. I also won't use cheap parts to save money - if the strap that I want costs more then so be it.

In terms of sales, while I very much appreciate the comments on buying them, that's not really my target market. If my watch is different enough then I get coverage in something like International Watch and the market will drive sales if they like it.

With a relatively small LE for the first piece I'm not worried about shifting them (numbers 0 and 1 will never go to market, one or two pieces will doubtelss become charity auction pieces and the rest will shift just based on local meida / web forum activity, the bigger issue for me is building the buzz about Roff watches.

Incidentally, the name will likely be Roff watches rather than Roffensian, but in keeping with my current corporate identity the as jet undesigned logo will have to feature the Roffensian R (attached)

im in!!!!

in rgards tyo the DB option thats why i said if at additional cost you decided to only decorate the movement on second run id happily send it back and pay extra for the decoration.

dpending on what type of thing you go for i can mention it to andrew he would be able to help if u went with something the military would be interested in

This is an awesome project – I’ve thought about it myself and reckon if you approach it with an open mind you will come up with something special.

It seems the process will be a synthesis primarily of assimilating:

1) Movement
2) Dial
3) Case

With the layout of the dial influenced by the movement – so the real creativity will be in the dial finishing and case shape and finishing. I came up with the university idea as I dabbled in mech engineering myself and knew a few birds in design before I got into the law gig, and there were expert machinists on campus who made all sorts of cool stainless steel, aluminium, brass etc. objects for engineering and design students – custom yachting gear, cooking utensils, surgical gear, whatever. It was always interesting to talk to these guys because they knew so many tricks to make solid complex shapes – with extremely fine tolerances.

I was on a project to make a device which could fit in a 300x300x300mm cube with a weight limit and which could raise a 1kg object as high as possible and keep it there. We used three series of 8 or so aluminium rods opposing each other in a triangular layout with the top of one rod connected to the bottom of the next via stretched ruber bands – when the trigger was released, the bands raised the bottom of an adjacent rod close to the top of the one next to it. It shot up and held the 1kg can like a three legged table. The arrangement called for tiny (about 40x10x10mm) and precisely machined collars to connect each adjacent rod in the series, otherwise the whole contraption would leap up all lop sided.

Anyway, this cool machinist made these amazing little collars with spring loaded latches that were a work art. I remember they had these perfect bevelled edges that locked into each other both before and after the somewhat violent “deployment” of the contraption. The design of the collars really came from the old boy who had decades of experience making such little gadgets. I think guys who actually work with metal have a lot to offer the designer. That nexus between design and manufacture is where the magic happens.

The sooner you can find a dude with access to first rate machine tools and an interest in your project, the better. It may be the scoop of the lugs, the style of crown, an interesting pattern of finishing, I don’t know – but the smell of machine tool oil and the sight of curling metal will inspire you.

Concurrently I recommend you spend a few months…

1. sketching – maybe do some basic research into design sketching techniques, talk to people who do this professionally.

2. experimenting on a suitable drawing package. Play with circles, tangents, patterns, mathematical relationships between angles etc.

3. Seeking out beautiful designs in areas outside of watchmaking – other jewellery, architecture, cars, musical instruments, tools etc. Nature is a great inspiration too.

4. For the dial, think of colour, texture – black & white/silver contrast is a common foundation, but who doesn’t like the subtle dash of red on a Navi? Perhaps a deep metallic blue dial with matt gold markers, bronze with jumbo scooped polished steel markers which play on the light…the options are endless. Multilayered dials on which the perpendicular edges catch the light when the piece is seen from an angle work nicely to add depth and detail to an otherwise mechanically simple watch and are in vogue.

5. being open to those moments when a great idea flashes up – unconscious processing can lead to wonderful connections.

All this may sound extreme, and I’m not suggesting a tetrahedron with brushed spherical lugs and giant purple hands – but the more techniques and permutations you have in your tool kit as a designer, the more likely you are to discover what it is you are looking for. At this early stage it’s healthy to not know what that is – give it time to develop, allow the cross pollination of ideas to ferment, and you just may come up with a wonderful timepiece. As a first port of call, learning about how energy is transferred to a metal blank in the machining process will open your mind to what is possible. Best of luck - I look forward to seeing how this project develops!

That's a concern - and brings home what a tough market this is. No matter how cool the piece, there is a lot of competition out there for watch buyer dollars! The marketing will have to be something 'out there' to gain attention and generate sales. If the design is good, I have some ideas

Thanks Carlos - priceless advice.

Now, purple hands..........

roff will you be making anything larger than a 44mm?

With a few very low LE numbers reserved for those that were in on the ground floor RIGHT!!!!!

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Chronomat, Steel/Gold, MOP Dial, 2-tone band (2008)
Super Avenger Black Baton Dial (2009)
Bentley B04 GMT Silver Dial (2013)
Avenger Blacksteel Baton Dial (2014)

Larger than 44mm - who knows. If there is a future brand here then yes, in the first model, no idea yet.

Low numbers for early adopters Boney - well, we'll see

As an update as I have been getting some PMs.....

Don't expect a watch for 2 or 3 years - these things take time. I am getting towards a crown style, I have a few ideas on lugs, and I'm working on some case designs - that's where I am really struggling - finding something different that still works with a round case - many designs start looking too much like x brand.

Still - it's fun

sounds like you are on point. i am very excited to see what you come up with. the interesting thing will be to see how the genral public takes to it. since everyone has their individual taste i would assume its hard to please the masses. will you take the approach of making what you love and attracting those with the same attitude or would you try to do more a bsaic design to capture a larger audience. personally i dont think there is a right or wrong it just breaks down to what you feel is best for you and yoru brand.

I have to be true to myself first.

I have no interest in becoming a mass market watch producer, it will always be niche - to me that's the attraction. If I can't produce something that I think is one of the best looking watches out there then I'm not going to do it. I only need a tiny fraction of one percent of the watch buying public to agree to make it viable as long as I stay sensible. If the brand takes off then who knows, but it will always be based on limited production.

thats awesome....i am sure that you will accomplish what you are looking for. and i totally agree you need to love the watch more than anyone that way people will be attracted to your brand since you believe in it! please keep us posted on developments...you never know one day we might all be on roffensiansource.com....lol