The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Well better is a hard term to define.

Let's be fair and refer to the ETA / Valjoux based movements as reworked rather than just renamed - they aren't simply given a Breitling rotor and shipped out.

At the end of the day a watch is supposed to be accurate, and COSC is the standard for mechanical watchmaking - -4 to +6 seconds per day. If you achieve that, then that's pretty damn good (bearing in mind that perfection is impossible in a watch that is being worn and changing position constantly). It's tough to get 'better'.

Where I think that in house movements have a tremendous advantage is in bringing innovation.

Breitling's B01 has a number of design differences from Swatch Group calibres that you could argue are innovative - the most obvious is the power reserve - a 72 hour power reserve is undoubtedly 'better' than a 42 hour power reserve.

Other manufactures have really pushed the boundaries - Omega's co-axial escapement is revolutionary and brings better consistency and extended service periods; UN's (and others) use of silicon in their calibres could ultimately lead to a movement that doesn't need oiling; Chopard's 10Hz escapement could bring a whole new level of accuracy.

If Breitling goes in that direction, then they will really advance far beyond the old designs that they are using now. If they simply look to mass produce movements that are only sufficiently 'better' than 3rd party movements to justify the higher price (like longer power reserves) then it's tough to say that they are really improving things.

Roff :

I read a bit of the translation from a german magazine about the B01 movement. If i remember corretly, the reviewer had only good comments about that movement and he was saying that it was not even gaining 1 second /day.

Is this part of a fine-tune breitling gave to that particular watch since it was given to a reviewer of their product, like a cherry-picked movement from the bunch of movement they have? Or is the movement really that accurate.

Maybe some B01 owners can tell us how much they are gaining/losing a day.

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Mat

Breitling Navitimer 01
Omega Seamaster 300mc
Omega Speedmaster Pro "Mitsukoshi Mod"
Seiko Prospek Orange Samurai

Yeah I know the articel, and the cynic in me wonders whether it was an 'advertorial'.

Any COSC certified watch can be adjusted to be accurate to less than a second in a 24 hour period in lab / test conditions. In fact with a timing machine and a vaguely well made Chinese movement I could get it to that level of accuracy if the watch is left alone.

The problem comes when the watch is in the real world - constant jarring, changing position, etc. Then how do you define accuracy - if the watch gains 3 seconds on the wrist and then loses 3 seconds overnight by being left crown up is that watch accurate to 0 seconds per day? The owner may well think so, and then may post on here that his watch has suddenly started gaining if he starts storing it laying on its back.

There is nothing inherently more accurate about the B01 than any other mechanical calibre that Breitling uses.

Another bit of trivia is this.. the Valjoux 7753, while having the quickset removed, actually has a pusher for advancing the date at the 10 o'clock position. Why this pusher was not used on the Navitimer, I do not know, but it is part of the movement. I've had other Valjoux 7753 watches that used it.

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BreitlingSource Admin
http://www.breitlingsource.com - http://blog.breitlingsource.com

The ETA and Valjoux movements mentioned are both excellent and durable and very well known. Time will tell if the B01 is better. I doubt the 72 hour power reserve is very useful. One of the ways to get and keep accuracy is by keeping an automatic movement nearly fully wound. This means you need to wear it most of the time. As to the accuracy issue, I don't believe Breitling gives the actual fact sheet showing gain/loss in each position, crown up, crown down, face up, etc. I have watches that do and it is helpful knowing where the most gain is and where the loss is. You can utilize the info to ,sort of ,regulate the timekeeping . Fast beat movements like the Zenith El Primero theoretically do better, but as a practical reality, not really. Rolex used to use the El Primero in their chronographs and would change the excapement to get the 28,800 instead of the 36,000 bph. Apparantly they felt the wear was more important than the better timekeeping, since the faster escapement would require servicing more frequently to maintain the timekeeping. Great movement, however, and the very smooth movement of the second hand is great to observe. And, it is certainly tough to beat Rolex on accuracy. George Daniels invented the co-axial escapement and wrote extensively about it, having used it in his hand made watches. He claimed that you could go 10 years without service and still maintain accuracy. I don't know how well Omega has done with them and whether that long service interval actually works out. Great topic and good comments.

+1
Great topic Omega 21, thanks for posting. Thanks to everyone for their commentary, it's been fascinating and interesting reading to date

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Happines is Good Health and a Bad Memory.
"Ingrid Bergman"

thanks for your comments and answers everyone
It's superb threads like this that make me keep coming back here.
Bravo!

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Omega21

I'm new to the forum so first up "hello"!

I have had Breitlings before but have just picked up a A23322 which so far i like a lot

I was doing some research on line and came upon this thread and have found it very informative so thanks to all to date. I am not that knowledgeable and do have one query on the B13/23/7750/7753.

To the best of my knowledge ETA manufacture 3 grades of the movement - elaborated, top and chronometer? and Breitling presumably use the chronometer version? now this might sound really stupid but if that chronometer grade movement is taken and then "breitlingafied" is it then resubmitted for re testing or do they piggy back on the original chronometer certification? If the answer is it is re submitted for testing, and Breitling are going to add their own elements to the movement, then why use the chronometer version at the outset as presumably they could bring it up to that standrd themselves?

Apologisies if this is blatently stupid in advance.


Nev

ETA don't submit their ebauches for chronometer certification. Breitling do always use the highest grade (some movements have 4 grades) and the chronometer grade is designed to be capable of achieving chronometer certification, it isn't certified.

That makes senses to me now and thanks for clearing it up for me

WOW! You guys are awesome. The knowlege base here is unmeasurable. I love my Breitling and I love reading posts like this one. After reading this and gaining the wealth of information contained in this posting which one of you do I get my degree in Horology from? Seriously discussions like this one is why I am here.

H60

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11' US Naval Aviation Centennial Airwolf L/E
Ocean Racer band
10' Avenger Seawolf Chrono "BLACKSTEEL" L/E
Diver Pro II band
08' Chronomat Evolution
SS/18K w/ SS/18K Pilot Bracelet
06' Philip Stein "SPORT"

Lots of great info here, tahnks.
Can anyone post a clear picture of B13 movement. I have the Navitimer A13322 and would love to see the engine.

Breitling don't make pictures available, there is a (not great) picture on the site - http://www.breitlingsource.com/details/B13.html

Google Valjoux 7750 and you'll have something visually identical except for the non Breitling rotor.

Roff,
I could not find any other picture exept the one on your link.
Think I will take a picture of mine next time it will be opened by authorized Breitling person.

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-RJ