The Breitling Watch Source Forums

I purchase a lot of things online, and have made some expensive online purchases. But I would never in a million years purchase a high end watch or a piece of jewelry online.

If I'm going to purchase a high end watch, or a piece of jewelry, I want to hold it my hand, see what it looks like up close, see what condition it is in. A lot of what drives the desire to own a piece of jewelry or a high end watch is the appearance of it. Well, I want see it first hand. I don't want to buy a high end watch online and have it show up with a scratch on the bracelet, or buy my wife a diamond pendant that just doesn't have a lot of sparkle to it. I want to see the actual piece that I am going to purchase.

For me, it's different for other products. After doing research, I will buy a laptop or an audio system online. There are well known, trusted online retailers for those products, and at the end of the day, I care more about the functionality of the product than the look, feel or overall appearance. All the examples of a particular laptop roll off the assembly line looking the same. One isn't going to be shinier, or a better choice than the one that rolled off before or after it. And if one has a little scratch on the case, I really don't care. Cause it's a laptop.

Lastly - I'm not quite sure I understand the comparison of jewelry stores to travel agencies. You're comparing apples and oranges. Actually, you're comparing apples and shoes, they are so dissimilar. It makes no difference to me whether I walk into a travel agency and they flip through a book that shows me different packages, or I click buttons on my computer to see the same exact packages. Either way, the service that I am receiving and the end result is EXACTLY the same. Either way, no matter what I purchase, I won't experience the product until I actually go on the trip. So unless the travel agency with the store front has a teleportation device in it that allows me to experience the destination before I hand over my credit card, the online travel agent wins every time out of sheer convenience.

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Breitling Colt GMT
Breitling Navitimer World
IWC Portuguese Automatic
Breitling Transocean Chronograph LE

I have bought all but 1 watch online and have been really pleased with all but 1 purchase.

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"It's not how it's written it's how it's read"

As far as watches are concerned, I will always buy from an out of state AD for the simple fact of not paying sales tax. I would only buy watches that I've seen in person before, and I'm completely confident in my AD to deliver a perfect watch.

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Justin
Please contact me via PM for the contact details for Govberg Jewelers
Govberg is an AD for over 50 fine Swiss and German watch brands.
Visit them on the web at http://www.govbergwatches.com or call 800-528-8463

This is getting way off topic, though I think Sav has his answer that it's probably not going to get him the best deal.

I certainly buy online, but only if I vae to - a piece that is no longer available through an AD. I also consider buying from a retail location that I can't physically visit if that makes more sense.

However, I am only comfortable doing that because I have handled literally thousands of different watches in bricks and mortar locations. Ultimately, if they don't do business then I can't keep doing that.

True enough Roff, I thought there might be some value in putting the SOH back into the AD pool but if 33% or so of retail is what they're going to offer, they can stick it.

I seem to have lost the charger for my camera (again) so I'll have to get hold of the Mrs' camera and get some decent shots and advertise it on here. I trust that anyone on here will be gentle with me on my sale

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Hercules

Well, it might be the numbers more so than the logic you have an issue with Roff – obviously a 20% margin is a different proposition than a 50% margin. Although the impression I got was that generally discounts range from 15% - 20% - no doubt the current market may change that, especially in North America. Having said that, I’m sure there are plenty of wealthy watch greenhorns who walk away from an AD with a 10% discount and consider they’ve done well.

I certainly do agree that there is nothing like physically examining a piece – I found that the other day when I tried on a Superocean Heritage Chrono. The pictures have never done anything for me whatsoever, in fact, I really didn’t like the model - but such a blue chunky beast on the wrist!

And hey, I haven’t worked in retail since I was at college and had a gig as the towel boy in the women’s swimwear section in a department store…sweet job when you’re 18! I guess the retail margins are big across many products. I would differentiate a 3.5x cost bottle of wine at a restaurant, as that is a transient experience for which the ambience of the restaurant, company one is in etc. is what really counts. But no matter how awesome the AD, the joy with a watch is derived over many years when one wears that item – could be a thousand miles from the AD and decades latter when your grandson tries on your Bentley and his eyes light up because he just knows it’s cool. Then your eyes light up because you know the little guy knows…Half the value in the AD 20 years ago? Nah!

I don’t begrudge ADs making a decent living, and I enjoy the experience of browsing in a nicely laid out high end store – it’s all part of the attraction. But I maintain that a 50% margin is excessive, and the proof of the validity of my assertion is in your comment that “purchasers expect 30+% off retail”. I dare say these purchasers – including myself – are likely to be more militant about it upon realising that the RRP is initially double what the AD pays!

Finally, I suppose Australia is like North America, and unlike Europe, in that the staff in ADs tend to have little knowledge of the watches they sell. But it’s probably only freaks like us on this forum who recognise that. For me, the journey into mechanical watches has always been about finding that crazy watch in the yellow catalogue I have a vague memory of seeing as a kid – it was a Breitling 1806. I’m embarrassed to admit it, but it took me a couple of years of research to work that out. So I can appreciate that for “normal” watch buyers, ADs have a valuable role…but not half!

Roff, I'm interested, where are you getting that information from?

I look at all invoices and I can assure those are not the numbers.

That isn't the value to you. You cannot purchase directly from the manufacturer without being a dealer, so the wholesale cost is irrelevant. Do not confuse unauthorized internet fantasy pricing with the real world.

In other words, the value is what you're willing to pay. My advice is to stay authorized, but do not assume that you can haggle beyond 30-35% as a first-time client and be taken seriously.

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Avenger Skyland
If I said I was good, you'd think I was bragging.
If I told you I wasn't, you'd know I was lying.

I think the proliferation of internet only brands like Ocean7, Halios, NFW, Lum-Tec, Christopher King, etc, show that this is a trend that is beginning to change. Why pay for a middle man?

Admittedly, those brands do not yet demand the same price premiums as Breitling, Rolex, etc, but it will continue to change. Selling direct benefits both the buyer and the manufacturer. As I mentioned before, manufacturers can open their own boutiques to allow customers to touch and feel the product. Apple is the best example of a major success in doing this.

AD's are just inefficiencies in the system.

Thanks, but I’m not “confusing unauthorized internet fantasy pricing” with anything.

By your reasoning – absent though it is – in discussion, one could never address the various inputs into the pricing of anything. As far as I’m concerned, that’s a boring discussion when concerned with items which cost several thousands of dollars.

First of all, B&H has a B&M store and I would suggest that it constitutes a large percentage of their business.

Secondly, cameras are not jewelry, and rarely does one buy a lens based on how it looks hanging from your neck. Jewelry, like most any other high-end item, does usually require a certain amount of touch and feel to help the buyer justify his or her purchase. Hence the need for a salesperson, to help rationalize and reinforce that decision. The salesdroid doesn't necessarily need to be able to describe the movement in detail, but rather say things like "that looks mahvalous on you!"

And let's be real - most people buy only one expensive watch, and often that comes as a gift. Those of us who are collectors are more likely to do the research and obsess about the items and spend time on Internet forums, etc. We are the minority.

Back to the OP - yes, sell it yourself! You should likely get 50% of retail for it, depending on how the market is in the UK. Around here (USA) that's probably what one could expect.

Michael

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Breitling, Omega, Rolex... what can I say, I like Swiss watches.

I have contacts at distributors in a couple of different countries and one or two in Switzerland. I don't have first hand evidence of BUSA but have been told the same number by two different sources.

What about the proliferation of new luxury watch comapnies that don't sell direct - there are a handful of those for every one that does sell direct. I have yet to see a watch brand sell direct unless they are consciously pricing themselves at the value end of the market where margins are much smaller (and where ADs would refuse to be involved at the manufacturer's target price point).

It's not a case of the brands that you name not yet demanding price premiums, they are consciously going after the value end of the market.

When you refer to a pricing model as a "game" and essentially a "scam", it seems as though you are addressing the issue. You seem to think that ADs are irrelevant, I simply disagree. Somehow, you also think that going direct might have a positive influence on the pricing, when in fact it's been traditionally easier to get discounts through dealers as opposed to the factory in many other industries.

My point is this. Consumers are down the chain too far to worry about wholesale unless they have a hookup.



This is correct. Consumers often feel that companies that sell direct also do not operate at 50 points of margin. The difference is, they sell direct as opposed to through an AD. THAT I feel is a bit of a scam, since the entire appeal of those companies tends to be "value".

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Avenger Skyland
If I said I was good, you'd think I was bragging.
If I told you I wasn't, you'd know I was lying.

Simple answer to that, and I by no means am answering for anything else but BUSA, is no.