The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Craig,

My apology, and good to hear that you didn’t do it, but if you still have the watch, then maybe you should offer the guy to replace the lume, and work a little on the hands to make them match the rest of the watch.

Not really my concern, but why not . . . .

/ Kurt B

Honestly Fred, do you really really mean that the "watch is spectacularly beautiful", with those hands . . . ? ?

/ Kurt B

this watch IS very, very beautiful - and it is the personal posession of a new member, I tend to be a respectful person. I would like to hear more about the history of that watch - as far as I have heard the watch lay untouched for more than 40 years - apparently the hands were relumed and cleaned or replaced sometime in the 1970s, parts availability might not have been a problem then - hands were replaced during service, just like they are now on new watches, nobody thought this might become a collector's icon four decades later.

We should beware to be to be too quick to judge.

Would you be so kind and explain what you mean by your comment about "my bracelet" ?

There are some rather nice Breitling vintage watches that are not Navitimer 806s, Kurt, you might be surprised; they have a history too - the SuperOceans of the 50s are among the most iconic, market pricing is well above most Navitimer 806. I was only offering proof these bracelets were offered and sold by Breitling with other models in the mid 1950s - nothing more, but also nothing less - hence my remarks about opinions.

Well,

Now we are off topic, then let’s continue.

I would always try to respond as honest as possible, not paying attention to whether it’s a new or long time member, personnel possession or not, if a picture of a watch is posted and I have a comment, I will always comment my way.

One of the reasons I spend less & less time on this Forum and others, is that everybody tends to be so “nice” to each others, praising watches to the skies, regardless of whatever, if a watch looks like crap I’ll say so, if I like it and it looks “spectacularly beautiful” then that’s what I say.

Even the owner of the watch will be able to see the difference if the hands was redone, in order to match the rest of the watch.

Look at San’s watch, I had the corrosion removed, the lume is the original, but it's ealy redone to a matching colour,and look at the below watch.

No comment on “your bracelet”, you brought it up.

We both know that Breitling produced mesh bracelets in the past, but I see no proof that anywhere that they are the ones you pictured, have you seen the clasp of the ones you picture ?
I have said it before and I’ll be happy to say it again, (and then it’s the end, no more comments about them) the ones I’m talking about started to pop op out of the blue some years ago, all brand new and with no referral at all to Breitling.



Completely agree, I love them.

It's not hard to be respectful to others and still get your point across. It's just a watch.

You will be surprised to know (but shouldn't be) that I am editing that comment for breaching multiple rules concerning sales on BreitlingSource.

In terms of vintage watches I have never seen a single watch that was hideous. I have seen many watches that I personally consider to be hideous, but I am neither presumptuous enough, nor arrogant enough to declare those opinions to be fact.

One of the other things that I tend to do on forums is read the posts that say things like "Read this first" and when those rules clearly state that the forum expects respect for differing opinions and fellow posters I try to respect that. Oddly enough, the same approach seems to work fairly well in real life.

There is a significant amount of knowledge on this forum, and in the vintage subsection, including some of the best known and well respected collectors, and also some of the larger vintage collections. Sometimes, the level of knowledge far outweighs the willingness to learn more and the level of humility, and that is a loss for the community and for individual members.

whew, some heated discussions here. Firstly I do know Kurt wouldn't win any awards for diplomacy:) but his knowledge on Navitimers is stellar and I doubt he means it in a bad way. It's the same or even more with Rolex experts too, they are usually not very diplomatic when a watch falls short of perfect:) which is the honest evaluation we collectors would like but can sound unkind because its not put subtly.

Lets take my watch as an example. It has the original hands with lume on them not matching the lume on dial because of the known property of the hands to rust and in my case the rust colour mixed with the hands lume giving it a brownish hue. Now I had 2 options, which as a collector would have implications.

1) For One, I could keep the lume on the hands as is and just scrape of a bit of the thick rust on the steel part of the hands. ( this is the option I chose to keep it original)

2) I could relume the hands but in a lume matching the lume on the dial( that would however impact it's originality).

Would I accept a hand relume that was white and not matching the dial? I frankly wouldn't since the watch would look less beautiful then if the relume was done in a matching relume shade. Getting back to the OP's watch, while I do agree that the watch is beautiful, I do agree with Kurts observation that it will look stunning if the the white relume on the hands is removed and it relumed in a shade matching the plots on the dial. The only reason I didn't choose that approach is because I wanted the original lume, irrespective of whether it matched or not. Offcourse in my watches case, having that rusty lume shade is a sign of originality too so kept it that way.

well a diplomat he isn't - but Kurt has a wealth of knowledge, I do enjoy learning from him.

also for that apology note to Craig.

Roff,

I was caught in the act, I don’t know the rules concerning sales on BreitlingSource, simply because they don’t interest me, but I obviously know that I’m not allowed to post a sales add in the Forum, which I have also never done.

What makes a moderator a good one, it the willingness and capability to see things in the right perspective, and IMO you failed here.

It was a way of speaking, I felt challenged by Fred (in a good way), which lead me to write that harmless comment, that I’m sure almost everybody in the Forum would understand the right way, it was in no way sales-oriented.

But no worries in my end that you moderate my post, the sad thing that quite a few members will now be curious and start thinking what the heck I wrote that was so bad that it had to be removed, as we all know that if there’s one thing you almost never do, then it is moderating posts.

But now that you have started the day in such a brilliant mood, shooting to the left and to the right, then I suggest that you take a look at this post, as that it definitely IMO very sales-oriented, he is literary begging for somebody to buy his watch.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=47927

At least San understands me, and slowly by slowly maybe even Fred a little, I’m happy so guys - smile to life and it smiles back at you . . . ! !

Cheers mates, Kurt B

Small changes that makes a huge difference, and it will look much better for real, if done my somebody who's good at it. . . . . ! ! !

/ Kurt B

Since I am the owner of the watch and the originator of this thread, I can say with absolute certainty that this watch is 100% original and has been in the possession of a dear departed friend sitting untouched for the past 40years and before that was his fathers watch, the original purchaser. I also have the original Breitling literature that is pretty cool as well.

Now, am I correct in my understanding that there are those of you that think the watch hands may have at one point been re-lumed on my watch? Or...is it simply that the hands do not meet with ones taste/approval as they may have not had the patina of the rest of the dial/face??

I can see you guys are passionate, I am new to all of this, but I would like to understand the real reasoning behind the "hands" discussion if possible.

Thanks to all....I look forward to your comments.

the lume on the hands is quite different from the lume on the dial, these would normally age similarly and develop a similar patina.

as I wrote above, the hands might have been relumed or replaced during a service in the 1970s - quite a normal procedure then and now when a relatively new watch is serviced, nobody then thought about future collectors who would bitch about grades of patina - if the watch was not worn since then, this would explain the difference.

enjoy your wonderful watch, great to hear you have the original manuals - if you find the time, it would be wonderful to see some pics of those.

There is no doubt that the hands on your watch is the original ones.

The Tritium / radium inside the hands that originaly was there, was painted on in order to make it readable at night, it has at some time been replaced, hence the non matching colour, if it had not been replaced it would have matched the colour of the numbers on the dial.

The hands on the early Navitimers was originally silver matte plated, and they all corrode to some extend, the corrosion has at some time been removed, and the result is visible now, I don't know what was done, maybe they have been painted, maybe they have been silver re-plated, or maybe they the corrosion was just scraped off, if it's the last option I doubt that it can have been done many years ago, as steel patinate over the years, and the hands don't show any patina to my eyes.

Do yourself a favour and visit my website on http://www.kurt-b.com, as there you can read just about everything worth knowing about those watches, if this respond gets moderated, then feel free to send me a private message, or mail me directly on mail@kurt-b.dk.

It's a great watch, but I strongly advice you to have the hands worked on, so that they matches the rest of the watch. The fact that you have had it serviced, indicates that you intend to use it, and it will satisfy your eyes much more when it has been done, I'm sure that Craig can do it.

In terms of value it also means a lot that it has the correct Vintage look.

As Fred said, please post pictures of the paperwork, and of the box if you have it, accessories are of great interest for us "passionated guys"

/ Kurt B

An addition to the hand lume not matching dial debate. From my vintage Rolex experience, it is infact possible for the lume in the hands to age differently to the lume on the dial because Rolex back then had at times different suppliers for the hands and dials, so lume concentration would slightly vary causing a mismatch. But even in those cases the lume shows varying degree of patina on hands and dial, is not white. How common is the perfect match in Navis? OP, are you certain the watch has never been serviced in it's life?
And as you see, a oft discussed topic by Rolex collectors

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=122871
Also see this nicotine smoke suggestion I came across
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=163092


Kurt, is my explanation for my watches hands lume having gone a darker shade correct i.e because the rust deposit that was previously there on the steel part mixed with the corrosive radium to cause the hands to darken? How common is that occurence on other Navis you've encountered?

For those who don't know what rust I am refering to this is the before picture


and the after when the bit of rust on the hands was taken off, a very fine difference to untrained eyes but a big difference in looks for me:)



and a pic of a nice match between the hands, dial and tritium dot on my Submariner

Kurt B, Cruvon, WatchFred...you guys are all terrific. Just reading this thread is a learning experience for me.

From my untrained eye, I likely would not have even considered/noticed the difference in the patina to the hands until it. I do wish this beauty to be an enjoyable, wearable, period correct piece so the re-lume of the hands to match the numbers does seem to make sense. I have asked Craig his opinion whilst he still has the piece. Thanks to all for weighing in!