The Breitling Watch Source Forums

>>>>Breitling have always catered to the trunk-wristed and that's fine, but there has to be some variety. Cp Omega, who have just brought out some of their most desirable 45mm Seamaster POs in a 42mm, or JLC, who have just downsized their iconic Master Control from 40mm to 39mm to broaden its appeal. If Breitling don't listen to us, you'd think they'd have an eye on their competitors.<<<<<

It really wasn't that long ago that Breitling was a 40mm player. When was the Hercules issued - '04 or '05 I believe. At that time the 45mm Herc was a test watch and by far Breitling's largest production piece. But one thing I don't begrudge Breitling for is large watches. I got into Ling affection knowing many offerings would be beyond my means (physical much more so than financial). They have offered the Chronomat and SOH in 42mm versions, so some props for that at least.

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SHARKMAN

I am wondering if the real problem here is this;

We admire other watch brands when they make (what we believe is) a sensible introduction or an adjustment to their offerings that we applaud. We then hope like heck that Breitling will do something similar, or at least something that warms the cockles of our hearts. When they don’t seem to have listened, we become disappointed with the offering. So instead of celebrating the difference in a new model (or what little there might seem to be), we admonish the changes as not worthy. We were waiting for something big to happen from our favoured brand, and nothing seemingly did. We wish the changes to be what we imagine is the next big step, but it does not appear to happen.

I think we are suffering Breitling Development Deprivation Syndrome (or BDDS for short).

I am willing to stick my neck out here. On another thread, there are some members who can’t hide their absolute thrill on seeing a video teaser of the new Emergency 2. Not one picture of the watch mind you, yet there is jubilation at the mere mention of its name. So there should be, as this one has been a long time coming. It’s a hot button for members here and it’s got to deliver. Anticipation and excitement abound.

I give it two months after the release date to see if there is much criticisms about the new offering and whether it gets relegated to a missed opportunity label. I hope I am wrong and that the watch is a great success for Breitling, but something tells me I might be, at least in part, right about the critique. Going on recent design changes of many favourite Ling offerings, and the disappointment of enthusiasts thereafter there will be those who are disappointed (bold statement on my behalf). There will be those (probably like me) defending the style and design of the new version, others will be pointing out the new radio frequency is not as bad as it might first seem, whilst others will be debating if it presses all the buttons and should they buy one, cause it does not have an improved whatever, etc, etc.

As I said, I hope I am wrong and everything turns out to the point that even I, might get out the wallet and buy one. In the meantime, I am waiting to see the rant myself. Why, because this new release will dovetail with what we have been discussing here for the past week. It will be interesting in the extreme and in a non scientific way. I can't wait.

Whatever we think of the brand and its direction, one thing is true. It’s never dull here…………….

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Jim

"You have Control".

Actually there is a teaser pic of the new Emergency and it "appears" from that pic something that might earn widespread applause.

For most of us, the issue is that Breitling has chosen downscale rather than upscale. While other brands embrace new, higher tech materials like ceramics, Breitling has fallen to low tech, cheap materials like rubber. In my quest to embrace the changes I bought a Skyracer Raven (rubber bezel) and SOII (rubber bezel insert). But let's face it - rubber is a cheap watch material. Rolex, Omega, IWC et al are using more exotic materials. Breitling has heavily adopted a material used in toys and vehicle tires and completely eschewed new material technology while pricing their models as if those latter materials were being used. Breitling was never know for using cheap materials.

Sometimes it doesn't come down to psychological musings or sociological principles of group dynamics. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes cheap materials are just cheap materials.


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SHARKMAN

Well Don, I used to drool over Playboy magazines as a teenager as well. Not so much anymore

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"It is just a matter of time!"

My issue is that Breitling tries to market itself as a high end watch, and in turn uneducated buyers act like they have something fancy. But instead of moving up market they are moving down market. The brand needs to define itself better. It's okay to try and appeal to a wide audience but it will fail when it tries to have something for everyone.

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Current:
Chronospace Silver, Black Ocean Racer
Navi World Silver, Aero Classic
Chronomatic 1461 Bronze, Bronze DP-1
SA White, Diamonds, Pro 2 Diamonds
SA Black, Bentley Rubber
Navi 1461 LE, Black DP-1
Chronomat GMT Silver, Pilot

P

It really wasn't that long ago that Breitling was a 40mm player. When was the Hercules issued - '04 or '05 I believe. At that time the 45mm Herc was a test watch and by far Breitling's largest production piece.

Wasn't it 05 the navi world at 46 mm. That was the largest at that time?

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NAVITIMER WORLD (SILVER)
PATEK PHILIPPE 5980 (BLACK)

World was never the largest.

Hercules was introduced in 2002 at 45, Super Avenger was introduced in 2004 at 48, World was after the SA.

You may be absolutely correct in that assumption, but then again, if the E2 is subtle in it's evolution from the original E, then maybe not.

For example the TOC is a new watch, and yet it it receives pretty much universal acclaim from everyone here. Sure some may find it too big or too small, or lacking a non-mesh bracelet option, but generally speaking it's universally liked - myself most definitely included. I could also mention the Navi 01 here as well, but (to their enduring credit!) Breitling haven't evolved that watch very far at all..... and a good thing that is too! Personally I think it's the restraint in terms of styling, the quality of materials (no rubber!), and the general high-end appeal of those watches that carries them through in terms of being appreciated by pretty much everyone.

As many of us have said (with Sharkman being most recent immediately above), the models that are generally disliked by a lot of us here, are those that use materials that are perceived as cheap (rubber for example), uninspiring (such as a constant need to DLC everything in sight), and those designs that seem to literally discard any reference at all to what's gone before design-wise. I'll be honest but some of the recent models could've had another brand's logo on the dial and I wouldn't have batted an eyelid.... such is the speed and degree of movement away from the brand's history in some areas.

Personally speaking, while I agree 100% with wanting to see Breitling embrace new materials like ceramic, grade 5 titanium, maybe even things like tantalum or forged carbon - at the moment I just want to see designs that are evolution not revolution, AND where all the design elements simply just "work" together. Just plain old SS is absolutely fine by me as long as the design is cohesive and sensitive to the brand's history.

For me, the new Unitime is a case in point in that regard - in many ways it IS an evolution as it draws on many elements from the original piece, but IMO it's not executed particularly well in terms of design. The brash globe, the date window encroaching on the central dial area, etc, all serve to put that in the "missed opportunity" camp for me. It's certainly not the worst of the new batch, but with a little more thought and a little more subtlety, it could've been an absolute winner.

Or maybe I'm just turning into a miserable old b*stard!

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Driver8

Site Moderator

You're right D8, it should be a subtle evolution. In fact, it's should be a fairly straight forward evolution if they've got their thinking caps on.
All they had to do was fit a transmitter into a titanium cased B-1 on a titanuim Pro II bracelet and have a UTC as an option too.

I mean......how hard do they want to make it.

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Have
B-1 Black Dial+UTC
Emergency Black+UTC

HAD
B1Vulcan+UTC
B2 Black+UTC
C.A. M1-Team SEB in the Volvo Ocean Race+UTC
Emergency Ti -Yellow+UTC
Mission -Black
Old Navitimer -RAFAT

Breitling could learn a lot from Porsche. They've managed to evolve the 911 now for over 60 years, whilst still keeping both the 911 and the whole Porsche line fresh.

Breitling seems to have recognised this with the Navi, and the TOC (evolving from the Top Time 810's). Hopefully they can do this with the Emergency

I think all of your comments are valid and reasonable. I also think that what we do here (in our comments) is react to changes in the Breitling offer rather than necessarily understand them. I believe any watch maker worth their salt are the ones that take the design process seriously, learn lessons from the past and adopt the time honoured skill of a briefing led design regime. I think Breitling do this as they are a not fly by night business. Humans have been doing breifing led design that for about 6000 years now, and it’s a tried, trusted and true method of achieving good design outcomes. Breitling don’t need to learn from anyone else (least anything Porsche might have to offer), as they just need to have a clear design philosophy on where they are going and not react to market pressures that much. As we don’t know what the philosophy actually is, then perhaps they are working towards these goals anyway. It’s just that in the first world, we can’t see it! Ours is a mature market and full of customer aggravations with model development adn we don't get the new direction. This has to be tempered with other considerations not known to us as well, and needs for us to go along with that notion (Ayn Rand’s Fountainhead anyone!) anytime a new model is released. Hard for them to do though, if not impossible, (keeping everything balanced) and harder for us to understand. Perhaps we need a Q & A session with a Breitling Boffin (instead of the marketing hype and spin) to outline the philosophy of any new model. Probably been done before, but that’s what we need. This is the perfect forum for that to occur and would go a long way for us to ask in depth questions and analyse where the model is going and why.

Breitling have taken over 100 years to get where they are today, although there have been wobbles in the past. Essentially though, they have been in the forefront of watch development at times, and in certain areas of watch making, they have lead. There’s no reason to believe they are not locked onto that path still or that they are not paying attention to it. I hope they are, and I hope they have enough confidence to go in directions that we, although not happy with (perhaps), will ultimately fulfil their philosophy of what the Breitling Brand means. It’s a very crowded market this watch making business, and to stand out is somewhat difficult, so you have to choose your direction carefully. That might mean disappointing rusted on enthusiasts at times. I for one, look to them as leading rather than following and for us to understand the rationale rather than react to it.

We don’t know what the business or design pressures on Breitling are, and we do not know what the brief issued to the designers for any one particular model might have been. It’s like any industrial design process, (I am thinking vehicle design here too) and because we say something is right or wrong, doesn’t make it so. I would hope the process does not include focus groups or special interest and that the outcome is faithful to the brands intent. Our rant is just our opinion. We use derogatory terms such as ‘Buck Rogers’ or ‘Rubber’ to describe that divisive bezel design. The bezel is neither, but we can’t understand this funny coloured ring in any other way, and the terms we use illustrate our disappointment. It’s like saying a pot metal case is stainless steel. Its not…….

One would hope that the design department gets a little bit of creativity and inspiration every now and again, and are given time and resources to see if the ideas explored match the brief for a particular design, and within the makers philosophy. I am hopefully for the E2 and it’s why I eagerly await its release. If my theory is right, they will have evolved the E2 from the E1, but perhaps take our breath away with some flourishes of lateral and clever thinking as well, which none of us would have thought of or contemplated.

As for the Breitling Hate this might generate, just keep in mind there are many reasons for going in a particular direction, and the truthfulness of the design will be tested by the comments of enthusiasts and buyers alike. In the end, I will take my queue from functional users over anyone else. If those in the Emergency Services field or in Aviation in particular that rely on this type of watch technology think it’s a winner, then I will be happy. In the end it’s the users of such watch technology that matters, as this is where this model is referenced from.

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Jim

"You have Control".

Dude what's with the constant need for long, multi paragraphs posts like you're Writing a novel??? Sheesh.

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"I don't own any watches, I just lease them"

Hi serge. I am still farily new here, so sorry if this is an inappropriate, or incorrect use of a thread. You will just have to forgive me this one time, as its an interesting disucssion. I am passoinate about this topic, so I tend to get carried away. Perhaps I can keep it down to 100 word bites in the future.

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Jim

"You have Control".

That would be a watch I would buy even if I had to strap it onto my calf for fit.


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SHARKMAN

Unfortunately, Breitling is has gone on the record that they do not conduct market research. Rather they are "confident our customers will follow the brand." A line so arrogant and short sighted I will never forget it.



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SHARKMAN