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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:17 pm 
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sharkman wrote:
You can't insure for full value, their are customs declarations issues, buyers often only want you to declare a small value which can create real trouble for you, I always insist the buyer assumes all risk of damage/loss in shipping. It is a last resort.


Why cant you insure for the entire value when shipping internationally? With regard to customs....What do you mean by having the buyer assume all risk? I am currently in discussion with a member from Singapore and would like to get a better idea on the risk involved so I can make sure the buyer is fully award.

RJRJRJ wrote:
My problem is that there is a lot of potential for a problem e.g. buyer unhappy with taxes, shady foreign post office steals, gets lost, gets damaged etc. If anything happens, the buyer files a claim with paypal or credit card, and seller gets screwed. Obviously, a solid reputation can bypass the red tape, but other than that, its wire only for me.


If any of the above scenarios plays out how does a dispute with paypal work? I think we can all say the last thread involving the "empty box" routine has me a bit spooked. If I accept payment via paypal, how can I cover myself from the sellers end? Do I just make sure the funds are secure in my checking account before shipment?

Thanks for all the help guys. The second hand market can be a really great opportunity for new WIS to get in the game and for seasoned vets to fund upgrades and new purchases. It has worked out well for me as a buyer to date, so I am hopeful that my first sale goes as smoothly.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:33 pm 
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thomasenlow1 wrote:
sharkman wrote:
You can't insure for full value, their are customs declarations issues, buyers often only want you to declare a small value which can create real trouble for you, I always insist the buyer assumes all risk of damage/loss in shipping. It is a last resort.


Why cant you insure for the entire value when shipping internationally? With regard to customs....What do you mean by having the buyer assume all risk? I am currently in discussion with a member from Singapore and would like to get a better idea on the risk involved so I can make sure the buyer is fully award..


Usually, the shipping carrier won't allow you to insure it for the full value. For example, I shipped a watch using FedEx International to Australia and one to Hong Kong; FedEx would only insure the package for a max of $1,000 for international shipments. I had the buyer agree in writing that he assumes ALL RISKS i.e. lost package, damaged watch, customs issues, taxes, etc with payment via wire ONLY. Both Buyers agreed to my terms (which a lawyer/bsource member kindly drew up for me) and luckily both packages arrived safely without issue.

Think about this....you sell someone a $6,000 watch, ship it using FedEx with insurance ($1,000 max allowed) and the watch arrives damaged or get's lost. What happens now?? Insurance would only reimburse $1,000....what would you do? Screw the buyer? Sue FedEx? It would be a disaster. That's why I don't like shipping international and that's what people mean when they say they lose a little control over the delivery when shipping overseas.

Even if it costs me a sale, I make sure the buyer knows ALL OF THE RISKS and I make sure that they are willing to accept ALL OF THE RISKS in writing...and if so then we'll make a deal. If not, then you're better off finding another buyer.....more than one person will want to buy your watch, be patient to find the right buyer.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:00 pm 
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thomasenlow1 wrote:
If I accept payment via paypal, how can I cover myself from the sellers end? Do I just make sure the funds are secure in my checking account before shipment?

I was wondering the same thing. I always assumed it took a while for funds to go from PayPal to my checking, but I've never actually done it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:05 pm 
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JacksonStone wrote:
thomasenlow1 wrote:
If I accept payment via paypal, how can I cover myself from the sellers end? Do I just make sure the funds are secure in my checking account before shipment?

I was wondering the same thing. I always assumed it took a while for funds to go from PayPal to my checking, but I've never actually done it.


No, Paypal still has access to your bank account and/or credit card. In the event that the buyer files a claim and wins....even if you have already transfered the funds into your bank account, Paypal still has the ability to reverse the transaction, pull funds from your bank account, or credit card, to cover the claim. It's a common misconception, people think that once the funds are withdrawn from Paypal and clear their bank account that they are safe. NOT TRUE PEOPLE!

Only way you can cover yourself as a seller is to make sure you are selling to someone with references, ebay references, and ship the way shark does....at a UPS store who inspects the contents prior to shipping. Buyers aren't affraid to ask for references, sellers should do the same!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:12 pm 
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mfserge wrote:
Only way you can cover yourself as a seller is to make sure you are selling to someone with references, ebay references, and ship the way shark does....at a UPS store who inspects the contents prior to shipping. Buyers aren't affraid to ask for references, sellers should do the same!!

What a dismal situation. One of the frustrating things for me is that I sell so seldom, I barely have any references myself. I have a feeling if I put up any of my watches, I'm going to get a string of questions akin to a colorectal exam, and still might be facing shenanigans on the receiving end. :?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:16 pm 
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JacksonStone wrote:
mfserge wrote:
Only way you can cover yourself as a seller is to make sure you are selling to someone with references, ebay references, and ship the way shark does....at a UPS store who inspects the contents prior to shipping. Buyers aren't affraid to ask for references, sellers should do the same!!

What a dismal situation. One of the frustrating things for me is that I sell so seldom, I barely have any references myself. I have a feeling if I put up any of my watches, I'm going to get a string of questions akin to a colorectal exam, and still might be facing shenanigans on the receiving end. :?


This is just my own personal view but I am much more willing to deal with people who have been contributing members for awhile even if they have no experience buying or selling.....they get the benefit of the doubt from me. Maybe thats naive of me but I don't think of a contributing member as a potential problem. It's the guys who sign up for an screenname today and want to buy my watch that I exercise a lot more caution...and I certainly wouldn't buy from someone who's first post is a FS thread...just my view...he could be the greatest guy in the world but I'd still pass.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:50 pm 
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mfserge wrote:
JacksonStone wrote:
mfserge wrote:
Only way you can cover yourself as a seller is to make sure you are selling to someone with references, ebay references, and ship the way shark does....at a UPS store who inspects the contents prior to shipping. Buyers aren't affraid to ask for references, sellers should do the same!!

What a dismal situation. One of the frustrating things for me is that I sell so seldom, I barely have any references myself. I have a feeling if I put up any of my watches, I'm going to get a string of questions akin to a colorectal exam, and still might be facing shenanigans on the receiving end. :?


This is just my own personal view but I am much more willing to deal with people who have been contributing members for awhile even if they have no experience buying or selling.....they get the benefit of the doubt from me. Maybe thats naive of me but I don't think of a contributing member as a potential problem. It's the guys who sign up for an screenname today and want to buy my watch that I exercise a lot more caution...and I certainly wouldn't buy from someone who's first post is a FS thread...just my view...he could be the greatest guy in the world but I'd still pass.




Exactly. J/S you have been a regular, near daily, member here coming up on a year. Anyone here has seen your search for the breitling you currently own, acquisition, pictures of it, etc... Likely not a problem here - this is a commmunity. Plus here you can link those posts in a FS thread. Try to link on another forum and it disappears. From personal experience, if you list on TZ you will riddled with questions and can give everything save your account PIN and still come up short. The first watch I sold - a CSO coincidently enough - was a huge headache on TZ and WUS. Answering the emails was a royal pain. But in the end a new member here snapped it up.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:07 pm 
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mfserge wrote:
[No, Paypal still has access to your bank account and/or credit card. In the event that the buyer files a claim and wins....even if you have already transfered the funds into your bank account, Paypal still has the ability to reverse the transaction, pull funds from your bank account, or credit card, to cover the claim. It's a common misconception, people think that once the funds are withdrawn from Paypal and clear their bank account that they are safe. NOT TRUE PEOPLE!

Sergio is right.

When I was listing a Zenith on ebay a while ago, I read the sections of the Paypal terms and conditions which deal with 'reversals'. Scary reading for a seller.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:15 pm 
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Otto wrote:
When I was listing a Zenith on ebay a while ago, I read the sections of the Paypal terms and conditions which deal with 'reversals'. Scary reading for a seller.

Would you recommend avoiding PayPal, even on a domestic sale? I don't want to give a buyer a sense I'm trying to screw him, either, but this whole reversal thing is a bit disconcerting, especially after that whole empty box fiasco a few months back.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:03 pm 
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JacksonStone wrote:
Would you recommend avoiding PayPal, even on a domestic sale? I don't want to give a buyer a sense I'm trying to screw him, either, but this whole reversal thing is a bit disconcerting, especially after that whole empty box fiasco a few months back.

As a seller, yes, unless I could satisfy myself that the buyer was trustworthy (reputation, references etc).

Problem if you're selling on ebay is that you can't refuse to take Paypal.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:50 am 
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Have it sent as a paypal GIFT, no fees, and no buyer protection so they can't pull any shady crap.

Also, if you receive a wire, make sure the person actually does a wire and doesn't deposit a check into your account. Someone on here recently was scammed when a buyer deposited a bad cashiers check into the sellers bank. I confirm all wires with my bank, I explain my story to the bank rep, write their name down, and I make certain that the funds are cleared and available before shipping. There are a few guys on here that have bought from me that I don't take those steps because there is no need but for the most part it's a must for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:36 am 
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Just to be clear on insurance, there are plenty of options to insure for full value, but it has to be through a third party. It adds complexity, but (for North America sourced at least) packages can be insured for full value. I know that in the UK it's harder because there are fewer 3rd party companies in the business.

Standard advice applies here as anywhere - buy the seller first, and the reverse should be true for sellers.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:49 am 
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thomasenlow1 wrote:

RJRJRJ wrote:
My problem is that there is a lot of potential for a problem e.g. buyer unhappy with taxes, shady foreign post office steals, gets lost, gets damaged etc. If anything happens, the buyer files a claim with paypal or credit card, and seller gets screwed. Obviously, a solid reputation can bypass the red tape, but other than that, its wire only for me.


If any of the above scenarios plays out how does a dispute with paypal work? I think we can all say the last thread involving the "empty box" routine has me a bit spooked. If I accept payment via paypal, how can I cover myself from the sellers end? Do I just make sure the funds are secure in my checking account before shipment?


For the most part, go with your gut and youll find that most people are legit. Paypal is fine as long as you ship domestically and fully insure the package. Even then, I vet the buyer just to make sure im happy. Even if you cover your bases, it can be a big pain in the ass to get the situation resolved. I think that even if they payment is sent as a paypal gift, the buyer can still claim that the transaction was fraudulent. So while that transaction isnt covered under the normal buyer policy, they are still covered by some type of fraud protection.

The only way id ship international to a not-so-well-known member would be if they paid by bank wire.

I had a guy who strung me along for a couple of days and agreed to buy a watch from me. We even spoke on the phone a couple of times. After everything, he suddenly changes his story and decides claims that he doesnt want to get screwed, so he wants to pay COD. Okay, but how do I know I wont get a bad or fake check? He says he'll send cash. I read the fine print and find out that there is a limit to the amount of cash they can send. Okay, he says that I should specify postal money order only. Turns out that while I can request whatever I want, UPS (I think it was UPS) was free to accept any type of money order. The guy backed out after that. These guys know the game, so you have to protect yourself.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:56 am 
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I sold a Navi World to a new member on here last year using paypal. We exchanged probably a dozen emails and we finally agreed on an amount. I'm a verified seller on paypal and his information was also verified with paypal. I sent him the invoice, he sent the money, and I sent the watch once paypal said the funds were mine and it was OK to ship the watch. About a month later I get an email from paypal saying the buyer has opened a claim that it was a fradulant transaction and my account showed a negative balance. I provided paypal with the shipping receipts and I was able to keep the money under their seller's protection policy. It was a huge headache and almost cost me the amount I sold the World for. I'd only deal with reputable members who can provide a few references. The last few transactions I've done on paypal have been very easy and without headache.

I did get asked by a member of timezone in Canada if I would consider selling a Super Avenger to him, but only if I declare the watch for $300. I refused to do that and he decided not to buy it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:16 am 
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Roffensian wrote:
Just to be clear on insurance, there are plenty of options to insure for full value, but it has to be through a third party. It adds complexity, but (for North America sourced at least) packages can be insured for full value. I know that in the UK it's harder because there are fewer 3rd party companies in the business.

Standard advice applies here as anywhere - buy the seller first, and the reverse should be true for sellers.


For future reference - what do you mean by a third party? I know Fedex as a first party limits to $1,000 and so does UPS, even through a UPS store which surprised me , based upon a recent shipment to Canada.

Bottom line for me, if the buyer accepts my condition that my obligations are dischrged in full upon delivering the watch to the shipper and loss or damage during transit is assumed by and the sole responsibility of the the buyer and buyer's sole recourse is the $1,000 insurance, I'll insure a more expensive watch and ship it wth $1,000 insurance. A UPS store will inspect the contents before shipping which lays waste to the "all I got was an empty box" dodge. And if pp is the payment means I'm ok with that because the email exchange is clear and would easily resolve any pp dispute.

Buuuuut, I have less anxiety still when the watch is insured for the full purchase price and shipped without crossing international borders.

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