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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:19 am 
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Driver8 recently posted his top 10 Breitlings of the modern era in this thread - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29313 and there was the challenge to try and come up with an all-time list.

Well I guess I had to respond to that!

There are some inconsistencies between my placing of contemporary pieces and Driver8’s, because I don’t completely agree with his list, and I am sure by expanding this to all time we are opening an even bigger can of worms and I am setting myself up for disagreement. I’ve tried not to box myself into a corner with ‘rules’, but I have consciously avoided very small run obscure LEs and only include LEs at all when they are actually notably different. I have also avoided individual pieces – sure pocket watch #1 is important, but no one knows what it looks like so it’s not on the list.

It’s easier with older pieces to identify the key models because we have the benefit of being able to look back at them, and I am sure that there aren’t too many surprises there, it’s harder with modern pieces, but I have tried to give a nod to importance not just aesthetics.

So without further ado……..

10 – Steelfish
It’s worth remembering that the original (42mm) Steelfish was only introduced in 2005. It evolved rapidly into the iconic timepiece that we recognize today. Would it have made the list if Breitling hadn’t just killed it – yes, I think it would. It’s Breitling’s interpretation of what a diver should be. Sure the Seawolf has greater depth rating, but it’s too big and too heavy (in steel) to move away from niche status. The Steelfish has a practical size and weight with all the depth rating that you realistically need and an incredibly legible dial

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9 – Emergency
I guess that some people may be surprised to see a quartz model on my list, but there had to be one. Breitling dominates the quartz chronometer statistics, and their modified ETA superquartz has been hugely successful. The Emergency took that to a whole new level. The earliest were pre COSC, but that soon followed. The Emergency is still a unique standout, an emergency transmitter that can be taken with you wherever you go and that has proven itself. There are a number of people who may not be alive today if not for this watch. If that doesn’t make it worthy of inclusion then I don’t know what does. Add Davey’s (damnfoolman) photography skills into the mix and throw in a UTC and you get this:

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8 – 1940s / 50s Datora Moonphase

I struggled with the inclusion of this watch. It is one of the most faked and least well documented Breitlings of this vintage, but it’s also the birthplace of the modern Datora and the modern Olympus models so for that reason I have to include it. Typically it would be a model 799 or 800 (picture is of a 799 that a member posted a while back that I am as convinced about as any of them). This might be the most contentious inclusion in the top 10, but it was the starting point for a lot of modern pieces so has to be there for me.

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7 – Bentley Le Mans
Driver8 said most of what I would have to say about this watch when he included it in his top ten. It’s a watch that has to be seen and worn to be appreciated – so maybe some personal bias is entering into it. It just works, it’s an incredible piece that comes together in a unique package that no other Bentley since has been able to achieve. There may never have been a Motors T without the bezel on the Le Mans. Forgive a moment of self-indulgence, but to me the copper dial works really well, especially with the red date – this one’s mine:

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6 – Lemania Cosmonaute with display back
I had to include a Cossie on the list, and it was difficult to decide which one. The obvious choice was the original 809 that Scott Carpenter worked with Breitling on, that’s what started it all. For me though the mid-1990s Lemania hand wound version edges it for such a classic movement. If you are going to choose that one then you have to go with the display back version – the Lemania is beautiful, even if some purists were horrified to see the plastic (delrin). Can’t beat Ron’s photos.

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5 – 1984 – 2010 Chronomat
I guess that I am cheating a little bit here because this is multiple models, but the DNA from the original 81950 of 1984 clearly carried all the way through to the Evos / Chronomats of the last few years that have so sadly now been retired. This is the watch that re-launched Breitling into the mechanical renaissance, it’s the watch that introduced iconic design cues in the bezel and rider tabs and it’s the watch that became a showcase for that workhorse chronograph movement the Valjoux 7750.

At the same time it showed that Breitling was still at the forefront of aviation timepieces, partnering with the PAN Frecce Tricolori to design the watch. Here’s a shot from Alan Trott’s history of the original 1984 version – a very early piece as evidenced by the lack of the Breitling wings logo:

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4 – Original Chronomat (769)
I suspect that there are still some people on the site who think that the original Chronomat is from 1984. This piece is seen as the poor relation of the Navitimer, but without the Chronomat there would never have been a Navitimer. It first appeared in 1942 – a feat that is incredible in itself, launching a radically new watch while most production was focused on flight instruments for the allied war effort. The slide rule design and gearing was patented and Breitling were so proud of this they put the patent number (217012) right on the dial. The Navitimer slide rule was of a different design, but the heritage is obvious.

I chose the 769 model number because it is the iconic Chronomat. There were others that are more appealing to collectors, but this is the classic. Picture from Alan Trott’s history:

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3 – Navitimer B01 LE
It’s not the first in house movement watch, but it is the first to showcase the movement with a display back (along with other releases in the same window). I chose this one over the Chronomat B01 because I feel that this is the watch that will determine the success or failure of Breitling as a manufacture. It’s a classic design with some contemporary twists and shows that while Breitling as a company is very different from the company of most of the 20th century they are still capable of producing iconic watches that have timeless appeal. The photo is of dhalem’s piece as I wanted a shot on the Navitimer bracelet:

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2 – Original Chrono-matic
There is a popular misconception that the Zenith El Primero was the first automatic chronograph. Well calling yourself ‘the first’ might make you think that it was, but it wasn’t. Dig deeper and you will find that the El Primero was unveiled in January of 1969 as a movement only, while Breitling / Heuer / Hamlton / Dubois-Depraz unveiled a completed watch on March 3rd 1969, several weeks before Zenith’s watch was unveiled at Basel. The Breitling was also the first to be in series production by about May / June of 1969.

Well, that’s where the story ends for many people – Zenith had the first movement, Breitling et al had the first watch. Not quite. The photo below is from Navitimer.net and shows the Chrono-matic pre-serie. It was available in September 1968. Game. Set. Match.

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1 – Navitimer 806
What else could it be really? The watch that defined Breitling for most of the 50s, 60s and 70s and the watch that is the heritage of the iconic pieces we know today. It is still the subject of mystery on the vintage part of the site with the various debates over when the first appeared, the use of different movements, etc. It changed a number of times over its life, but the image I have chosen is the classic first generation – original style hands, beads of rice bezel, all black slide rule and black sub dials. Photo from Alan Trott’s WatchUSeek post:

Image


So there you have it, my personal top ten Breitlings of all time. I’m sure that everyone will disagree with at least one or two, some will probably disagree with most, but as I look at this list it reads like a hall of fame for what Breitling means to me, and that’s all I can offer.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:37 am 
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Well, apart from your HUGE cheat with the Chronomat entry (26 years worth of models!!! :lol: ), then I think that's a pretty darn good list Roff.

No surprises at all with numbers 1 and 2, and good to see that your top modern era piece (the Navi 01) is the same mine.

Couple of surprises in there though - the Steelfish for one. It was in my list, but I'm surprised it made yours actually. Another surprise (although it's less so given your self-imposed criteria of importance rather than aesthetics) is the Emergency. I completely get why it's in there, but I'm just surprised that you'd have a quartz in your list!

The only other surprise for me is that the CA Ratty didn't make the cut. Sure it's a very rare LE with only 25 examples, but it's not like a unique piece for example which would be very difficult to include.

Great list though. :thumbsup:

(Good mention of the delrin brake in there too! :wink: )

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:48 am 
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Driver8 wrote:
Well, apart from your HUGE cheat with the Chronomat entry (26 years worth of models!!! :lol: ), then I think that's a pretty darn good list Roff.

No surprises at all with numbers 1 and 2, and good to see that your top modern era piece (the Navi 01) is the same mine.

Couple of surprises in there though - the Steelfish for one. It was in my list, but I'm surprised it made yours actually. Another surprise (although it's less so given your self-imposed criteria of importance rather than aesthetics) is the Emergency. I completely get why it's in there, but I'm just surprised that you'd have a quartz in your list!

The only other surprise for me is that the CA Ratty didn't make the cut. Sure it's a very rare LE with only 25 examples, but it's not like a unique piece for example which would be very difficult to include.

Great list though. :thumbsup:

(Good mention of the delrin brake in there too! :wink: )


I had to have a diver on the list, and for me the Steelfish is the Breitling diver. Going back to the original SuperOcean of the 50s it's the one that stands out for me and to exclude the marine elements of Breitling wouldn't be right.

If I'm not allowed to 'cheat' on modern Chronomats then I would choose the 81950 - it's what launched the current company.

The reason that the Emergency made the list is really the same reason why the CA Ratty didn't. The Emergency is a significant point in Breitling's history, the CA Ratty isn't - how many people even know about that watch. Would I buy an Emergency - never in a million years, but it clearly earns its place on the list. I would climb over many women and children to get my hands on a CA Ratty but it isn't (for me) significant enough to bump anything from my top ten.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:13 am 
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Great list, Roff. As a relative newcomer to Breitlings, most of these aren't on my appreciation radar, so it's good to get some insights.

I suppose having all the modern Chronomats as a single entry is a bit of a cheat, but I also think it makes sense, since, as you say, the DNA of the 81950 carried through to the Evo. It also helps me make sense of the comment you made a while ago (with which, at the time, I disagreed) that the 01 Chronomat isn't really a Chronomat any more. I get it now, and agree with you. Just out of curiosity, would you include the Crosswind and other Chronomat variants (Blackbird, etc.) as part of the entry?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:21 am 
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JacksonStone wrote:
Just out of curiosity, would you include the Crosswind and other Chronomat variants (Blackbird, etc.) as part of the entry?



There's clearly some family links there - Crosswind Racing was a bridge from Chronomat to Chronomat Evolution, Crosswind Special evolved into the current Blackbird, etc. In putting the list together I felt that there was only room for one 'branch of the family tree' if you will, and I guess technically only the original Blackbird would be included as that was virtually identical to the Chronomat of the era.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:42 am 
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Okay, this is a casual enthisiast's perspective.

When I started paying attention to Breitling about ten years ago, I was like a lot of folks--nice watch= Rolex, maybe an Omega. The Breitling that made me think about Breitling is the Navitimer, which is rightfully your number 1, and which I STILL don't have--had to get the last Steelfish. Next was the Chronomat, clearly deserves to be there. Gotta be a Scott Carpenter watch, a Cosmonaute, on there. Again, I consider myself a casual enthusiast who likes diversity, about five brands worth, but one other thing I immediately noticed about Breitling and still identify with Breitling to this day is more of an accessory than a watch but still an icon to me--the UTC. I don't know if anybody else does them, maybe they do, but I have only seen it on Breitling.

I don't think the Emergency ever gets enough credit and I have wondered if that was intentional--we do not need a legion of bozos out there buying them in droves who get drunk and decide to activate their distress signals (I'm sure there are strong penalites for this, but still...). I frankly have more respect for that piece than any other, even though it's not my thing. I have read up on the Datora and original Chronomat before, and the race for the first automatic chrono, an interesting story, and certainly understand them on the list. Frankly, my only qualm was with the Bentley. Granted, I can't tell you the replacement for it on the list, but the whole Bentley thing never quite set well with me. I guess there is a murky line somewhere separating innovation, evolution, and product marketing.

Lastly, it is soon to list the Steelfish on the list, but I have to say it is the only watch I have ever considered (and still am considering) owning more than one. Enjoyed the list, thanks.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:06 am 
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Roffensian wrote:
The reason that the Emergency made the list is really the same reason why the CA Ratty didn't. The Emergency is a significant point in Breitling's history, the CA Ratty isn't - how many people even know about that watch. Would I buy an Emergency - never in a million years, but it clearly earns its place on the list. I would climb over many women and children to get my hands on a CA Ratty but it isn't (for me) significant enough to bump anything from my top ten.

Yes, I think our threads are slightly different in focus : mine was more of a celebration of some of the things I personally like about Breitling over the last 20 years or so, whereas yours is more of a "greatest ever" thread irrespective of whether you personally really like the watch (i.e. the Emergency). Both are valid........ but you won't find a quartz on mine! :wink: :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:09 am 
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i approve 100% roff 10 Breitlings of all time, this is the real top of all times!


how people could forget the Chronomat 1984-2003 series!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:12 am 
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Driver8 wrote:
Roffensian wrote:
The reason that the Emergency made the list is really the same reason why the CA Ratty didn't. The Emergency is a significant point in Breitling's history, the CA Ratty isn't - how many people even know about that watch. Would I buy an Emergency - never in a million years, but it clearly earns its place on the list. I would climb over many women and children to get my hands on a CA Ratty but it isn't (for me) significant enough to bump anything from my top ten.

Yes, I think our threads are slightly different in focus : mine was more of a celebration of some of the things I personally like about Breitling over the last 20 years or so, whereas yours is more of a "greatest ever" thread irrespective of whether you personally really like the watch (i.e. the Emergency). Both are valid........ but you won't find a quartz on mine! :wink: :wink:



Fair dos.

If I tried to list my top 10 personal preferences then I think it would have gotten a little esoteric, which is why I went for a 'greatest hits' type approach. It probably makes comparisons between the two lists a little harder though.




Scott wrote:
Frankly, my only qualm was with the Bentley. Granted, I can't tell you the replacement for it on the list, but the whole Bentley thing never quite set well with me. I guess there is a murky line somewhere separating innovation, evolution, and product marketing.


I can understand that. At the time that the Le Mans came out (2004) it was to celebrate Bentley's back to back wins at Le Mans so it was tied to a more significant event, but I agree that the relationship has become a little diluted over the years with some of the less obvious connections and mistakes in the Bentley range.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:37 am 
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Come on! Got to be on the list!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:34 am 
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Colt Auto and Blackbird have to be on there. I was at the local BWM dealership today dropping off my car for service, guy beside me dropping his vehicle off had a Colt Auto on as well. They are all over! Tough to beat as a daily wear/beater for us not in suits.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:04 pm 
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JustinFournier wrote:
Colt Auto and Blackbird have to be on there. I was at the local BWM dealership today dropping off my car for service, guy beside me dropping his vehicle off had a Colt Auto on as well. They are all over! Tough to beat as a daily wear/beater for us not in suits.


sorry, but why the colt auto???

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:02 pm 
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I like the steelfish as much as the next guy, but id put the regular superocean on there instead (even though I actually prefer the steelfish). I just dont find that the steelfish has any historical significance as far as the brand goes.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:56 pm 
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From a strictly historical perspective I'm sure you're right. As I understand it, the Superocean has been, in various iterations, the primary nautical Breitling. I don't think the Steelfish brought any functional innovations to the table, either. That said, I'll try and offer perhaps a different perspective. I don't consider myself beholden to any one brand and in the past, when it came to a dive watch, the Superocean just wasn't in my discussion. I have owned a Seamaster, have the visual equivalent of a Sub in my GMT (I'm a desk diver, so that's all I need) and while I like the Chrono Superocean, I liked the Omega and Rolex three-hand divers much more than the standard Superocean. The coral dial was neat, but I never seriously considered owning one.

The Steelfish has changed that. The Steelfish is such a fully and beautifully realized version of its dive watch genre that, speaking for myself if nobody else, I think it changes the way people look at and think about Breitling dive watches. Looking at the boards, it seems to have as passionate a following among both apparent devotees and non-devotees as anything shy of the Navitimer. Sometimes a product comes out of the box darn near perfect. The Steelfish did jump up 2mm but other than that, I think it is darn near perfect. For me, anyway, that's why it's fair to include in in the list.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:06 pm 
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Scott wrote:
From a strictly historical perspective I'm sure you're right. As I understand it, the Superocean has been, in various iterations, the primary nautical Breitling. I don't think the Steelfish brought any functional innovations to the table, either. That said, I'll try and offer perhaps a different perspective. I don't consider myself beholden to any one brand and in the past, when it came to a dive watch, the Superocean just wasn't in my discussion. I have owned a Seamaster, have the visual equivalent of a Sub in my GMT (I'm a desk diver, so that's all I need) and while I like the Chrono Superocean, I liked the Omega and Rolex three-hand divers much more than the standard Superocean. The coral dial was neat, but I never seriously considered owning one.

The Steelfish has changed that. The Steelfish is such a fully and beautifully realized version of its dive watch genre that, speaking for myself if nobody else, I think it changes the way people look at and think about Breitling dive watches. Looking at the boards, it seems to have as passionate a following among both apparent devotees and non-devotees as anything shy of the Navitimer. Sometimes a product comes out of the box darn near perfect. The Steelfish did jump up 2mm but other than that, I think it is darn near perfect. For me, anyway, that's why it's fair to include in in the list.



My AD contact had me come in on Saturday afternoon as she had picked up a couple non-Breitling gifts for me. Everytime I see her she moans - "We sold more Steelfish than anything. More people came in asking about the Steelfish than anything." - referring to her disappointment to see it go. The addition of this model completed the puzzle. And you will be finding "WTB" posts for a long time.



EDIT - Like I said - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29396

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