The Breitling Watch Source Forums

thanks very much Fear, I'll take your advice.

Will report back if I get it at the right price, if it's not a great deal that compensates for the lack of box and papers I'll be walking away!

I frequently buy without box and papers - you can get much better deals. As evidenced here, not only is the price a bit lower, but the number of potential buyers is reduced.

I got my Romain Jerome without box and papers and ended up with a less than 12 month old watch for less than 30% of list.

I picked up my 1st Breitling today, a Navi World and was surprised at the packaging and had a lot of fun with the heavy box and papers.

Like most of the folks have already stated......No box, no papers, no buy....but as you can see everybody has different philosophies about it. I'm with mrcheatle on this one, it just does not make me comfortable to purchase a piece that is "incomplete". While it doesn't guarantee authenticity by any means, it is usually an indicator that the seller has nothing to hide by providing all the certs. In general, I think it also indicates that the seller pays more attention to details and most likely has taken better care of the item vs. someone that "willy nilly" tossed all those valuable pieces into the trash bin. That being said I also agree with Roff on his strategy, but then again he and some of the other folks on here are trained professional that really know their stuff which allows them an edge in considering an item without the b/ps.

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emotion!

This seller seems to be a jewelry store. Odds are it was a trade in or a buy and that's why no box or papers.

I bought my ling, no box, no papers - except for that nice 2 year service warrantee from the local AD I got the watch from. And yeah, the price reflected the same. I don't know if it is foolish or not, but when the AD says "It's real, and we'll stand behind it", I get the feeling it is real

I am amazed how much emphasis is placed on paperwork.
Fake watch = Fake papers
Real watch = Real papers

Papers are basically useless and can be faked much easier than the watch.

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This is a Rochefoucauld, the thinnest water-resistant watch in the world. Singularly unique, sculptured in design,hand-crafted in Switzerland.
In Philadelphia it's worth Fifty bucks.

Not always. For instance, I bought a ten year old Omega Semaster LE with box and papers. Because the watch was a limited edition, the box and papers that came with it were unique to the edition, and were not Omega's standard issue packaging. Moreover, I was able to call Omega and confirm where the watch was originally purchased, which matched the name of the store on the documentation that came with the watch, including the dealer's own sticker on the outside of the box. Omega also confirmed the serial number was not only genuine, but matched the style of the watch I bought. On top of that, I called the dealer, and even though they hadn't sold Omegas for a good 6 - 8 years, they confirmed they did sell Omegas during the period this watch was available.

Granted, I could have called Omega to verify the serial number without the box and papers, and could have called the dealer, too, once I found out who they were. But the packaging contributed a significant number of other indications of authenticity. The odds are extremely slim that a counterfeiter would be able to match the serial number to the specific style of watch, would get all the original packaging right, and would not only guess the original dealer of the watch but also manage to counterfeit the dealer's own insignia as well. I wouldn't have felt half this secure with my purchase had it not come with box and papers. I'm not saying other people have to feel the way I do, but I don't think the reasons for my opinion can be dismissed as invalid, either.

Turbo, I disagree with the statement papers are useless. Having the correct packaging/documentation adds the value upon resale and I'm sure that a number of better informed folks here will back me up on this. True papers can be faked, as with anything to do involving $$ there are always going to be scam artists out there trying to scam somebody. However there are steps one can take to ensure that the piece is authentic, the seller actually has the piece, and the seller is reputable. There are also many educated folks here that have the knowledge and expertise in validating any watch in question and they will be happy to help anyone seeking their counsel.

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I am just stating that the paperwork is no assurance that the watch is real. The watch is real or it's not. Paperwork does not make it real nor does it make it fake.

A fake watch will always have fake papers.
A real watch will always have real papers.

A fake watch can have paperwork belonging to a real watch with the watch serial number made to match the paperwork. This is the big problem with paperwork, as demonstrated in this thread it provides validation and can be exploited. There are many very good fakes of Breitlings and with a set of real papers (or great fakes) it can help validate that the watch is real when it's not.

The papers are nice but I would never use them to validate the watch authenticity. After visiting China and seeing first hand how good they can make a watch look the paperwork is child's play.

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This is a Rochefoucauld, the thinnest water-resistant watch in the world. Singularly unique, sculptured in design,hand-crafted in Switzerland.
In Philadelphia it's worth Fifty bucks.

Turbo, let me ask you this: is it your belief that a watch being sold aftermarket, that comes with its (allegedly) original box, papers (including COSC certification with matching serial number and warranty card with dealer name), and packaging (including all model-specific inserts and manuals) has no more objective indications (not guarantees) of authenticity than does the same watch being sold by itself?

I don't place any weight on the extras.. It can all be had or faked much easier than the watch can.

The enthusiasm surrounding the "Box and Papers" can be exploited.

Just do a search on ebay for "Breitling Box" or "Breitling Papers"

Here is and example of a currently listed item..


And this individually listed cert.


More than likely they are 100% real. Put them with a good fake watch and the crook has all he needs to separate the buyer from his cash. And since the watch has the "Box and Papers" it can typically demand a premium. A real bonus for a crook.

That's why I ignore the box and papers and only concentrate on the watch.

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This is a Rochefoucauld, the thinnest water-resistant watch in the world. Singularly unique, sculptured in design,hand-crafted in Switzerland.
In Philadelphia it's worth Fifty bucks.

Forgive me for getting all lawyerly on you, but you didn't really answer the question. Are you saying that a watch that is sold with all original boxes and papers, which correspond to the watch type, model, and original seller, and which are externally verifiable with the manufacturer, add nothing to the chances that the watch being sold is authentic? Yes or no?

If you answer no, we'll just have to agree to disagree.