The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Hi Guys

I was wondering what your thoughts on the following companies and more specifically the watches shown below are.
Bell & Ross BR-01 94

Graham London Chronofighter R.A.C

Wyler Geneva Code R


Thanks in advance

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Skyracer(Black Dial-Brushed)Raymond Weil Parsifal(black face w/diamonds)

Swatch Chrono Auto Right Track
Swatch Bond Villans:Casino Royale,View 2 A Kill & Quantum of Solace

I like the unique looks of these - especially Graham, but the problem for me is the value. They all use generic movements with little or no modification - certainly less than Breitling, and that makes them expensive for what they are in my opinion - none of them are exactly cheap!

My thoughts on these are similar.

I've never really warmed to B&R as I think they're trying to be "higher end" than they are. I'm also not sure how well the design of the BR-01 will stand the test of time.

Graham - my thoughts echo Roffs on these. Interesting designs, although the size of Chronofighter's "trigger" set-up worries me having never tried one on. Personally I prefer the Swordfish models, but either way they are all SERIOUSLY expensive for what they are (i.e. an unmodified ETA in a fancy shell without a well-known big-name brand on the dial).

I don't know enough about Wyler (or more to the point, their prices!) to be able to comment. Again they use bog-standard ETA's, so if they are priced at the "Graham end", then they are way too much. If they are priced at half that, then they might be a good buy. I just don't know enough about Wyler to give a truly educated opinion.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

From memory this one lists at around $9,500!

Oooooo K then! That puts it in the realm of Graham-over-pricing-lunacy in my opinion.

But as we've said on here before, I guess "value" is a very personal concept, and some may find Graham or Wyler good value. However, from a personal perspective I could think of a heck of a lot of other pieces for that kind of cash.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

I can offer a comment regarding Bell & Ross. I own the BR03-92 Phantom and I love it. I was a little sceptical that when the new wore off I wouldnt like the watch or brand all that much, but that never happened. I still love the watch and it garners the most complements from other people.

Now I do not care much for the BR01 line, at that size they are a little too cartoony for me.

Pros:
very comfortable (prob my most comfortable)
reasonably priced... some models
super legible dials
Cons:
flat crystal with no AR
date window is small

have been thinking about getting another, but it is a little lower on the wish list

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Breitling Steelfish(black)
Breitling Steelfish(silver)
Panerai PAM 312
Bell & Ross BR03-92 Phantom
Steinhart BreitlingSource LE #5/15

i would go for the graham every time! the rac is the exact one i would get. I may be wrong, but i believe they do modify the movement as its a 7750 witch originally uses the two pushers to activate the chronograph, were as in the rac the start and stop is activated with the oversized leaver witch is attached to the crown and the reset is on the top pusher - the top pusher is clearly there because the movement is just rotated so the leaver is on the other way round.

As for decoration they seem to do a damn fine job and they show it off with a show back http://www.luxury-insider.com/blog/cont ... amrac2.jpg

the only thing that puts me off them is that if you go to the website you dont get a feel of watch making, you get more of a "im funding the owners trips to cool places and events" and its not so much a brand that has been around for years its more of a tribute to a guy called george graham....

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Pain is only weakness leaving the body.

There is some modification on some models, and they do decorate (but top only from memory - i.e. only the visible bits). But given that the prices are higher than most Breitlings for generally leww well qc'd mods the discount will have to be reflective of the true value in my opinion.

I like some of the Graham models - but they are overpriced (well, all these things are, so maybe "extra-over priced"?).

However, for something a little different, I much prefer some of the B.R.M. watches.

Thanks guys.
I agree that the price is high for an ETA movement in a pretty case but by the same token I don't particulary want a watch that looks terrible or that doesn't suit me in order to own an in house mechanism.

Many of the JLC,IWC,Rolex,Patek, etc look nice and have amazing movements but they don't speak to me on a style, size, colour, function, originality level. (unless you talk about some of the 200k ones- and they are just a bit out of reach at the moment.lol)

There is also another way to look at it and that is that an ETA movement is tried and tested and used by many so it must be at the very least able to count 60 seconds per minute, 60 minutes per hour and 24/12 hours per day (give or take some tollerence- COSC level and beyond etc)

Ideally if I could find an inhouse movement for a Bell & Ross or a Graham and if they had all the respect garnered on some of the other elite ranges as well as a lower price then this would be perfect. But as you all know it comes down to the watch that puts a smile on your face and fits your wrist (a little attention from others is nice too)

Besides during these hard times maybe I can get a really good discount.lol

Oh and I think I may have narrowed it down to the B&R and the Graham..........no wyler dealer in Ireland so can't see them in person.
Might do a poll to see which one wins out

Cheers

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Skyracer(Black Dial-Brushed)Raymond Weil Parsifal(black face w/diamonds)

Swatch Chrono Auto Right Track
Swatch Bond Villans:Casino Royale,View 2 A Kill & Quantum of Solace

For me that would be very easy if aesthetics is the only question - I would go Graham all the way as they are so different. The looks of both will probably garner some strong opinions for both brands but I would suggest that you definitely try them both on.

The trigger on the Graham is certainly something that you need to be comfortable with and the big flat caseback on the B&R also has a distinct feel that you need to be happy about.

I was looking at some Grahams a while back and theyve always lingered around in my mind. They have pretty poor resale value so you can usually pick up a second hand piece for a reasonable price.

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-RJ

BRM is awesome, but REALLY expensive.

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-RJ

I've talked to George about BRM and Graham and he said they don't sell well at all, in fact, I'm pretty sure he said BRM sells the worst of all their brands. Deals could certainly be had on both brands as you can see on the specials section of their website.

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Justin
Please contact me via PM for the contact details for Govberg Jewelers
Govberg is an AD for over 50 fine Swiss and German watch brands.
Visit them on the web at http://www.govbergwatches.com or call 800-528-8463

I see them as very similar watch brands - niche market looks - they simply won't appeal to the vast majority of people who will only ever have one watch, rely on sizzle rather than steak in that it is the looks that sell, and both have decidedly little justification for their price point - which explains the discounts.

I personally like the looks of both, but as I said before, I don't see the value.