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 Post subject: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:55 am 
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I suggested that I would try and pull together a thread on some tourbillons, and it kind of turned into a bit of a book, but what the heck, here it is.

I only have one request – I really appreciate the comments and questions, so please go wild, but I hope it isn’t too egotistical of me to hope that this might be a useful reference for some people, so let’s try and have one thread without the pointless, irrelevant, smart ass comments – please.

I have used a lot of online and offline resources, and relied a lot on manufacturer data as well. A big thanks to everyone who makes this info available – there are too many to name them all. All the mistakes are mine alone. I have also shamelessly ‘stolen’ pictures from other websites, but have tried to make sure that none have policies against linking and I thank them all.

OK, let’s start with the basics (somewhat simplified).

A watch movement is basically a system of reduction gears – the minute hand turns 12 (or 24) times faster than the hour hand, the second hand moves 60 times faster than the minute hand, etc – similar to a transmission and differential in a car. And just like in a car you need a motor to drive that motion. In a watch the motor is the escapement which not only converts the fuel (stored energy in the mainspring) into movement, it also serves to ensure that the motion is smooth – no acceleration or deceleration needed in a watch!

The problem is that the escapement is attached to the movement and is therefore subject to movement as the watch moves. That means that the balance wheel which sets the tempo within the escapement has to work with and against external forces – like gravity. This can obviously affect the speed at which the balance wheel vibrates. It’s only a tiny impact, but because of the number of movements it adds up. A Breitling movement is 4 Hz, and 1 Hz is two vibrations (a left and a right). Therefore a Breitling movement has 28,800 moves of the balance wheel every hour – most mechanical watches are 3, 3 ½, 4 or (in the case of the Zenith El Primero) 5 Hz.

When Abraham-Louis Breguet invented the tourbillon (which is French for whirlwind) this motion caused big problems (predominantly in pocket watches in those days) and accuracy was a big problem. The purpose of the tourbillon was to hold the entire escapement within a body (referred to as a cage) that was in constant motion. The tourbillon cage, and hence the escapement was rotated as part of the drive train of the watch and the theory was that this motion helped to counteract the effect of gravity on the escapement. Typically tourbillon cages rotated once a minute, but there is no reason why they had to, some rotated just 10 times an hour. There is some debate about whether a tourbillon actually achieved its purpose, and certainly today it is largely a decorative feature, but that’s what it’s all about.

But this is supposed to be about some of the modern ‘funky’ tourbillons, not a history lesson, so let’s fast forward a couple of centuries, but first off a quick comment on fake tourbillons. The cheap fakes that you see with tourbillon windows are merely showing the balance wheel through the dial – often with a bridge over the top because that’s what most tourbillons need. However there is no rotation of the balance wheel (or any other part of the escapement) – it simply vibrates.

Today, the tourbillon is seen as the ultimate demonstration of a watchmaker’s skill and so companies are constantly trying to outdo themselves by not simply building a tourbillon, but making their tourbillon in a way that no one else can. They’ll usually claim that it helps the watches accuracy, but really – it’s marketing.

So let me start my journey around the world of tourbillons with someone who bucks that trend – Greubel Forsey. Their tourbillons are weird and wonderful at times, but they are designed to be functional – to them a tourbillon has to serve a purpose. This one is an extremely traditional one – a classic tourbillon if you will

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What sets it apart is that it’s a 24 second tourbillon – it rotates once every 24 seconds in order to try and really make a difference in accuracy – a wonderful thing to see in motion. That second photo is also through the side of the watch case – so you can get a rare glimpse of a tourbillon from the side. Note that this one is angled relative to the case – something that you can really see from the side

One variation of modern tourbillon is the flying tourbillon. A traditional tourbillon cage is supported from above and below, while the flying tourbillon is cantilevered, with support on only one side. This variation on a tourbillon was invented by a German, Alfred Helwig in 1920. One of the most recent (and best) examples is the Ballon Bleu De Cartier where the Cartier ‘C’ provides the support.

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One of the most prolific tourbillon producers these days is Zenith – it sometimes seems like they want to put a tourbillon in everything, and of course they always want to outdo themselves. Enter the Zero G!

This is a multi axis tourbillon, not the first, but certainly the most famous, even though it’s a newcomer. The definition says it all – this tourbillon not just rotates, it also has a gimbal mechanism that ensures that that the balance wheel always remains perfectly flat. There is some debate about whether this is technically a tourbillon, but who cares – it’s a very cool piece of technology.

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I don’t want to leave the impression that the Zenith is the only multi axis tourbillon worthy of mention – there are others that are just as incredible, if a little more mainstream. JLC is famous for producing the most affordable Swiss tourbillon (list price under $50,000 in a steel case), but at the other extreme they also have what they call Gyrotourbillons – their take on multi axis. Their gyrotourbillon 1 is an exceptional piece, containing not just a two axis tourbillon, but also a perpetual calendar, an equation of time complication and an 8 day power reserve.

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Another way that manufacturers have tried to set themselves apart on tourbillons is to go beyond just one tourbillon. Breguet invented the tourbillon, so it’s fitting to show the double tourbillon by the firm that carries his name.

This piece has two independent tourbillons that not only rotate themselves, they also rotate around the dial, doubling as the hour indicator – so one rotation of the dial every 12 hours.

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Greubel Forsey took a different approach to their double tourbillon. They encased a one minute tourbillon inside a four minute tourbillon, offset by 30 degrees

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The next watch is the one that started me on a love of tourbillons and haute horlogerie in general. It’s also the watch that interested me in Antoine Preziuso – an interest that is going to cost me a lot of money one day. The 3volution is quite simply incredible.

This watch has three flying tourbillons. Each of these tourbillons rotates within its cage once every minute, and the whole assembly rotates once every 135 seconds. The logic behind this is that the three tourbillons, and the rotation of the assembly work together to compensate one another, creating a natural harmonic resonance.

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Let’s finish this where we started – with Greubel Forsey. Maybe the ultimate tourbillon (for now) is their quad tourbillon – four tourbillons in one watch. This takes their double tourbillon concept from above and puts two of them together. While the firm will argue that this is still truly about performance, it’s tough to justify four tourbillons in one watch – this is about showcasing beauty – even down to the sapphire crystal bridges to ensure that everything can truly be seen.

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There are many more tourbillons that are worth of mention – if there is enough interest I’ll do a follow up and add some more, and of course Basel 2009 is just weeks away.

I hope that this has been of interest – it’s a different type of post for BreitlingSource, so let’s see what happens. If you’ve got this far then thank you for reading it, and please let me know what you think.


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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:46 am 
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Absolutely amazing engineering! Wow, how much does one have to pay for a triple/quad tourbillon I wonder? Thanks Roff, keep it going please. As you may have realised, for me, the highly conceptual, watch "art" doesn't necessarily float my boat, but this sort of thing is a celebration of mans' (not forgetting the fairer sex) engineering skills and ingenuity - pure beauty!

thank you,

ike


Last edited by ike on Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:49 am 
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OK, Im sold.. I'll take one... wait... how much??? oh! :)

Seriously Roff, Thats a great write up and extremely informative. Looks like someone has made use of their 6 hour train ride!

Scott

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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:42 am 
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Roff, are tourbillion movements more prone to issues with jarring or vibrations. In other words are they more fragile than a typically auto?

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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:03 pm 
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ike wrote:
Wow, how much does one have to pay for a triple/quad tourbillon I wonder?


Well, if you could find one, then it would take a few bucks! The 3volution is going to set you back around $1,000,000, maybe more.


In2Deep wrote:
are tourbillion movements more prone to issues with jarring or vibrations. In other words are they more fragile than a typically auto?


Not really. All the fragile parts of a movement - jewels for example are shock protected with incabloc or a similar system, and tourbillons are the same. Additionally, the cases of modern watches are engineered to direct the shock through the case and away from the movement itself. Of course tourbillons tend to have more parts than many watches so there are more things to go wrong, but they are not inherently more fragile.

That said, there are some tourbillons that have the cage outside of the main case, and I imagine they have to have some extra protection as that is potentially exposed. I guess they'll have to be in the next update!


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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:10 pm 
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great write up Roff. These engineering marvals never cease to amaze!!! The Zenith Zero G in black is just immense

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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:22 pm 
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Great work as always Roff. Many thanks for the time you put in to informing and entertaining us all.

Here's a link to a YouTube video of the JLC Gyrotourbillon. Facinating to watch!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=dbLITIynCgA

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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:50 pm 
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Great info as usual. :bow:


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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:15 am 
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Wonderful work Roff!! Thanks for sharing a small part of your vast compendium of knowledge on all things time! Anything you wish to pontificate/expound about on watch mechanism, design, history or movement I will always read in full! While I will never be able to afford a tourbillon, I certainly admire the engineering behind them. Thanks again! :bow:

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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:21 am 
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BoneDoc wrote:
Wonderful work Roff!! Thanks for sharing a small part of your vast compendium of knowledge on all things time! Anything you wish to pontificate/expound about on watch mechanism, design, history or movement I will always read in full! While I will never be able to afford a tourbillon, I certainly admire the engineering behind them. Thanks again! :bow:



Thanks Doc!

So here's a question for everyone.....

Obviously posting this on Valentines Day was going to generate a smaller immediate response, so I'll leave this for a while and see what people say, but what else would you like?

I'll do another tourbillon update with some really weird and woolly ones, but would you like me to do something else, and if so what topic(s)?

I'm more than happy to do this, though it may take a little while to pull some together, but I'm a little self coscious about coming off arrogant - especially as there are many, many people on the web who have greater knowledge than me.


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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:26 am 
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Roffensian wrote:
I'm more than happy to do this, though it may take a little while to pull some together, but I'm a little self coscious about coming off arrogant - especially as there are many, many people on the web who have greater knowledge than me.

There are, but I don't see them sharing their knowledge like you do. Once again, hats off and keep up the great work.


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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:51 am 
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Roffensian wrote:
BoneDoc wrote:
Wonderful work Roff!! Thanks for sharing a small part of your vast compendium of knowledge on all things time! Anything you wish to pontificate/expound about on watch mechanism, design, history or movement I will always read in full! While I will never be able to afford a tourbillon, I certainly admire the engineering behind them. Thanks again! :bow:



Thanks Doc!

So here's a question for everyone.....

Obviously posting this on Valentines Day was going to generate a smaller immediate response, so I'll leave this for a while and see what people say, but what else would you like?

I'll do another tourbillon update with some really weird and woolly ones, but would you like me to do something else, and if so what topic(s)?

I'm more than happy to do this, though it may take a little while to pull some together, but I'm a little self coscious about coming off arrogant - especially as there are many, many people on the web who have greater knowledge than me.


Not that I have ever had any contact with.
In all honesty Roff, you forget more about watches, watch making and movements on a daily basis than I know currently. Without sounding like I am trying to inflate your intestines with smoke, anything you expound about on the topic of mechanical watches is going to teach me a ton. I suspect that is true of most here -- a few exceptions, but they can read elsewhere in the forums for their fun. Anything from a basic primer on mechanical movements to a treatise on the gear ratios of perpetual calendars would likely be read by 80% of the forum members and appreciated by all. You know, since you have 6 hours on the VIA rail every day :P . You seem to be able to boil down a lot of info that may be available elsewhere in a smattering of places into one good source.
As far as coming off as arrogant, I would not mistake the noise of an empty can with the confidence of a full one. The sharing of knowledge is never arrogant, it is instructive. Thanks again! :bow:

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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:19 pm 
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Fantastic write up...I have been a big fan of the turbillons, but the closest I have come is a watch with an open-heart...a little out of my price range!

Thanks for sharing your great knowledge!

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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:45 pm 
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I really enjoyed reading that, thanks Roff much appreciated 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Tourbillons
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:11 pm 
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I too appreciate the pictures and info. One small request is that you add prices for the ones you know of. Not that I can afford any of them mind you, it's just fun to ohhh and ahhh at them while I show my dis-interested female friends the pictures.

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