The Breitling Watch Source Forums :: View topic - Why are ETA movements frowned upon?

Hi

Why do people dislike eta movements

I agree with the majority of what's been said in this thread already.

I don't frown on ETA movements at all for what they are - tried and tested workhorses. That said, when it comes to "prestige" expensive watches then I must confess to having a weakness for knowing that the watch has been designed and made in its entirety by the manufacturing company. (Yes I know very few companies make all their own components, but an inhouse movement is designed and built by the company).

These days I personally don't like paying Breitling money for something with essentially the same movement as a Hamilton, for example. Yes, Breitling (and others) may upgrade parts like the mainspring, regulator mechanism, bearings, etc, when they "highly modify" their ETA's but they are still movements that aren't of their own design. To use a car analogy, as we often do, an ETA (or modified ETA) in a Breitling is IMO like a Ford engine (or modified Ford engine) in a Porsche. Nothing wrong with Ford engines at all, and some are seriously quick, but given a choice I'd prefer a Porsche with a Porsche designed and built engine, rather than one that, while still being serious quick and rugged, wasn't designed by Porsche.

I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. To keep with the car analogy, if speed or reliability is your only goal, then a car built from parts from a variety of manufacturers may do that better than buying a car completely designed by one company. Take F1 cars for example - most of the teams build the chasis only, and drop in an engine produced by an engine specialist. However, if you want the "pure essence" of a Porsche or Aston or Ferrari road car, you don't buy one with a Ford engine in it.

So yes, I have no problem at all with ETA movements, and in many cases they are more robust that a lot of in-house movements, but I think there's a time and place for them. I personally no longer want to pay top dollar for just a nice case and a name on the dial. :wink:

(Yes, I realise I am massively simplifying things here, as this discounts the modification that goes on, but it's JMO of course.)

Id liken it to a Benz engine in a Pagani. Still perfectly serviceable, but its not Pagani's own.

Driver8 wrote:

I agree with the majority of what's been said in this thread already.

I don't frown on ETA movements at all for what they are - tried and tested workhorses. That said, when it comes to "prestige" expensive watches then I must confess to having a weakness for knowing that the watch has been designed and made in its entirety by the manufacturing company. (Yes I know very few companies make all their own components, but an inhouse movement is designed and built by the company).

These days I personally don't like paying Breitling money for something with essentially the same movement as a Hamilton, for example. Yes, Breitling (and others) may upgrade parts like the mainspring, regulator mechanism, bearings, etc, when they "highly modify" their ETA's but they are still movements that aren't of their own design. To use a car analogy, as we often do, an ETA (or modified ETA) in a Breitling is IMO like a Ford engine (or modified Ford engine) in a Porsche. Nothing wrong with Ford engines at all, and some are seriously quick, but given a choice I'd prefer a Porsche with a Porsche designed and built engine, rather than one that, while still being serious quick and rugged, wasn't designed by Porsche.

I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. To keep with the car analogy, if speed or reliability is your only goal, then a car built from parts from a variety of manufacturers may do that better than buying a car completely designed by one company. Take F1 cars for example - most of the teams build the chasis only, and drop in an engine produced by an engine specialist. However, if you want the "pure essence" of a Porsche or Aston or Ferrari road car, you don't buy one with a Ford engine in it

So yes, I have no problem at all with ETA movements, and in many cases they are more robust that a lot of in-house movements, but I think there's a time and place for them. I personally no longer want to pay top dollar for just a nice case and a name on the dial. :wink:

(Yes, I realise I am massively simplifying things here, as this discounts the modification that goes on, but it's JMO of course.)

Id liken it to a Benz engine in a Pagani. Still perfectly serviceable, but its not Pagani's own.

Alien thanks for your help. You mention the copyright on some eta movements have expired so some Chinese company's copy them but why would they care about copyright as they make fakes

Author:	Nathanbzr [ Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:18 am ]
Post subject:	Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
Hi Why do people dislike eta movements what are the disadvantages of having one in your watch. And do watches with eta movements depreciate more? Cheers

Author:	sharkman [ Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
I don't think the in house versus ETA impacts depreciation much. The real factor is the brand. I also don't think most frown upon ETA movements - they are solid long established movements with the bugs worked out. Indeed the 2824-2 and 7750 are the workhorses of the Swiss watch industry. The B01 caliber is certainly "inspired" by the 7750. Some folks just seem to need a manufacture movement in their timepiece, which is an understandable view. My view, though, is I truly don't care. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	Roffensian [ Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
I agree with Sharkman that people don't frown on ETA, many just prefer in house movements for the exclusivity and perceived higher quality (emphasis on perceived in some cases). The Swiss watch industry wouldn't exist without ETA and the various clones and while Swatch Group are trying to limit the supply of ETA movements that's just going to increase the demand for the clones. In terms of depreciation I think that the brand has much more to do with it, in percentage terms the depreciation will be equivalent. Resale on ETA will be lower than a comparable in house, but then so will the original price.

Author:	nickzac [ Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
It all depends on the buyer IMO more than the movement in regards to Breitling. Breitling really, really strips the ETA movement and rebuilds it to their specifications, so it isnt really an ETA movement in the sense of some other watches. Some buyers target the less expensive ETA bases for cost, and some the B01 for in-house uniqueness. As others have said, the initial MSRP pricing difference probably is the best predictor of depreciation. As awesome as the in house movement is, some buyers are still hesitant to go for it while the remaining issues are resolved...I think you could say one advantage is the ETA movements such as the Breitling 17 are rugged as hell and usually far more accurate than COSC limits. Breitling has been doing them for years and they are exceptionally good at it. The only watch with really predictable depreciation is the crown...and that is because they hold such a high value. My Breitlings have all been pre-owned, from an AD if possible, and then sent to BUSA for an overhaul to avoid the initial gap depreciation of buying new as any of the Breitlings I an afford are production pieces that won't be gaining value like some super limited ones have the potential to.

Author:	Sooner [ Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
Nathanbzr wrote: Hi Why do people dislike eta movements Not all people. Some of us appreciate that ETAs are proven, reliable, and easy and inexpensive to service.

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Author:	wessa [ Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
I would even go as far as saying that majority of people who buy a Breitling watch have very little appreciation for an in-house movement or even what an ETA movement is. Most of the time the decision making process is dictated by what the buyer likes and their budget. Sadly there are even loads of AD sales reps that can only resort to basic statements like "That is inhouse movement, it's the best, the other ones are old non-Breitling movements".

Author:	Driver8 [ Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
I agree with the majority of what's been said in this thread already. I don't frown on ETA movements at all for what they are - tried and tested workhorses. That said, when it comes to "prestige" expensive watches then I must confess to having a weakness for knowing that the watch has been designed and made in its entirety by the manufacturing company. (Yes I know very few companies make all their own components, but an inhouse movement is designed and built by the company). These days I personally don't like paying Breitling money for something with essentially the same movement as a Hamilton, for example. Yes, Breitling (and others) may upgrade parts like the mainspring, regulator mechanism, bearings, etc, when they "highly modify" their ETA's but they are still movements that aren't of their own design. To use a car analogy, as we often do, an ETA (or modified ETA) in a Breitling is IMO like a Ford engine (or modified Ford engine) in a Porsche. Nothing wrong with Ford engines at all, and some are seriously quick, but given a choice I'd prefer a Porsche with a Porsche designed and built engine, rather than one that, while still being serious quick and rugged, wasn't designed by Porsche. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. To keep with the car analogy, if speed or reliability is your only goal, then a car built from parts from a variety of manufacturers may do that better than buying a car completely designed by one company. Take F1 cars for example - most of the teams build the chasis only, and drop in an engine produced by an engine specialist. However, if you want the "pure essence" of a Porsche or Aston or Ferrari road car, you don't buy one with a Ford engine in it. So yes, I have no problem at all with ETA movements, and in many cases they are more robust that a lot of in-house movements, but I think there's a time and place for them. I personally no longer want to pay top dollar for just a nice case and a name on the dial. (Yes, I realise I am massively simplifying things here, as this discounts the modification that goes on, but it's JMO of course.)

Author:	RJRJRJ [ Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
Driver8 wrote: I agree with the majority of what's been said in this thread already. I don't frown on ETA movements at all for what they are - tried and tested workhorses. That said, when it comes to "prestige" expensive watches then I must confess to having a weakness for knowing that the watch has been designed and made in its entirety by the manufacturing company. (Yes I know very few companies make all their own components, but an inhouse movement is designed and built by the company). These days I personally don't like paying Breitling money for something with essentially the same movement as a Hamilton, for example. Yes, Breitling (and others) may upgrade parts like the mainspring, regulator mechanism, bearings, etc, when they "highly modify" their ETA's but they are still movements that aren't of their own design. To use a car analogy, as we often do, an ETA (or modified ETA) in a Breitling is IMO like a Ford engine (or modified Ford engine) in a Porsche. Nothing wrong with Ford engines at all, and some are seriously quick, but given a choice I'd prefer a Porsche with a Porsche designed and built engine, rather than one that, while still being serious quick and rugged, wasn't designed by Porsche. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. To keep with the car analogy, if speed or reliability is your only goal, then a car built from parts from a variety of manufacturers may do that better than buying a car completely designed by one company. Take F1 cars for example - most of the teams build the chasis only, and drop in an engine produced by an engine specialist. However, if you want the "pure essence" of a Porsche or Aston or Ferrari road car, you don't buy one with a Ford engine in it. So yes, I have no problem at all with ETA movements, and in many cases they are more robust that a lot of in-house movements, but I think there's a time and place for them. I personally no longer want to pay top dollar for just a nice case and a name on the dial. (Yes, I realise I am massively simplifying things here, as this discounts the modification that goes on, but it's JMO of course.) Id liken it to a Benz engine in a Pagani. Still perfectly serviceable, but its not Pagani's own.

Author:	nickzac [ Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
RJRJRJ wrote: Id liken it to a Benz engine in a Pagani. Still perfectly serviceable, but its not Pagani's own. I like that. With that analogy, we can say that even if the movement isn't of Breitling native origin, it still has performance that leaves most in the dust and still has plenty of passion and history behind it to make it characteristically Breitling and a formidable player in the industry.

Author:	crod [ Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
RJRJRJ wrote: Driver8 wrote: I agree with the majority of what's been said in this thread already. I don't frown on ETA movements at all for what they are - tried and tested workhorses. That said, when it comes to "prestige" expensive watches then I must confess to having a weakness for knowing that the watch has been designed and made in its entirety by the manufacturing company. (Yes I know very few companies make all their own components, but an inhouse movement is designed and built by the company). These days I personally don't like paying Breitling money for something with essentially the same movement as a Hamilton, for example. Yes, Breitling (and others) may upgrade parts like the mainspring, regulator mechanism, bearings, etc, when they "highly modify" their ETA's but they are still movements that aren't of their own design. To use a car analogy, as we often do, an ETA (or modified ETA) in a Breitling is IMO like a Ford engine (or modified Ford engine) in a Porsche. Nothing wrong with Ford engines at all, and some are seriously quick, but given a choice I'd prefer a Porsche with a Porsche designed and built engine, rather than one that, while still being serious quick and rugged, wasn't designed by Porsche. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. To keep with the car analogy, if speed or reliability is your only goal, then a car built from parts from a variety of manufacturers may do that better than buying a car completely designed by one company. Take F1 cars for example - most of the teams build the chasis only, and drop in an engine produced by an engine specialist. However, if you want the "pure essence" of a Porsche or Aston or Ferrari road car, you don't buy one with a Ford engine in it So yes, I have no problem at all with ETA movements, and in many cases they are more robust that a lot of in-house movements, but I think there's a time and place for them. I personally no longer want to pay top dollar for just a nice case and a name on the dial. (Yes, I realise I am massively simplifying things here, as this discounts the modification that goes on, but it's JMO of course.) Id liken it to a Benz engine in a Pagani. Still perfectly serviceable, but its not Pagani's own. i think the best comparison would be a FORD engine in an aston martin.... it makes me cringe..lol

Author:	Driver8 [ Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
@RJ, yes maybe your example is more apt - a Benz engine in a Pagani - and definitely a little kinder , but the principal is the same. i.e. Nothing at all wrong with the engine - it just means that the car as a whole is not a "pure" expression of the brand, and the basic form of the engine may be found in "lesser" cars which may bug some owners.

Author:	Nathanbzr [ Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
Driver 8 cheers makes allot of since. Thanks for all your help

Author:	Alien [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
There is one more little slightly unimportant point to ETA or inhause movement: The copyrights on most older eta movements have expired for some time already, so everyone can produce a 7750 for example. And chinese watchcompanies are already producing big numbers. They use softer metal to make the production process as cheap as possible (less wear on tools) and that leads to the big problem, that You cannot be sure anylonger, who has produced the 7750 movement for a specific watch any more. It can come from ETA, from Selita or from China. You can hardly tell the difference, when it is brandnew and already in a watchcase. I trust the big companies, like Swatchgroup, Breitling, Richmond, LVMH not to use a chinese production movement, but I don't trust the "smaler brands". This all leads to the final question: Do You really want to own a highpriced luxury timepiece, with a movement, which is practically the same as the movement of a medium priced watch or even worse, a chinese watch?

Author:	Nathanbzr [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
Alien thanks for your help. You mention the copyright on some eta movements have expired so some Chinese company's copy them but why would they care about copyright as they make fakes

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Author:	sharkman [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why are ETA movements frowned upon?
Nathanbzr wrote: Alien thanks for your help. You mention the copyright on some eta movements have expired so some Chinese company's copy them but why would they care about copyright as they make fakes China has a very large legit watch industry as well.