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| Japanese vs. European Watches https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22155 |
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| Author: | Drtymrtini [ Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Japanese vs. European Watches |
So I was reading through the new issue of iW - International Watch Magazine - they were featuring some pretty cool Seikos and Citizen watches - upwards of $4,600 US....but for some reason, I just can't fall in love with a Seiko or a Citizen. I feel like they're all trying to duplicate what's already been presented in the European arena - and I have yet to read an article that justifies the $$$$ for what already exists from their European competitors who have taken hundreds of years to perfect their craft. Am I being snyde, ignorant, or thick-headed? Does anyone else have a problem accepting a Japanese watch to be on the same level as a European watch? |
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| Author: | RJRJRJ [ Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
Drtymrtini wrote: So I was reading through the new issue of iW - International Watch Magazine - they were featuring some pretty cool Seikos and Citizen watches - upwards of $4,600 US....but for some reason, I just can't fall in love with a Seiko or a Citizen. I feel like they're all trying to duplicate what's already been presented in the European arena - and I have yet to read an article that justifies the $$$$ for what already exists from their European competitors who have taken hundreds of years to perfect their craft. Am I being snyde, ignorant, or thick-headed? Does anyone else have a problem accepting a Japanese watch to be on the same level as a European watch? I dont in the general sense that I have always thought of the Japanese as being very advanced, high tech, and having a high degree of quality and craftsmanship. I dont associate them with the same heritage as I do with the european brands, but these days, historical significance of a watch is only part of the equation to me. My biggest issue is the stigma that we have associated with brands like Seiko and Citizen in North America. While they make very high end watches, we look at them as the Toyota of watches. Cheap, economical, for the masses. Its unfortunate since these guys make a quality watch that most of us will never be able to detach from the stereotype. |
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| Author: | sharkman [ Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
RJRJRJ wrote: While they make very high end watches, we look at them as the Toyota of watches. Cheap, economical, for the masses. Its unfortunate since these guys make a quality watch that most of us will never be able to detach from the stereotype. HEY!!!!! I'm on my fourth Landcruiser! 
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| Author: | RJRJRJ [ Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
sharkman wrote: RJRJRJ wrote: While they make very high end watches, we look at them as the Toyota of watches. Cheap, economical, for the masses. Its unfortunate since these guys make a quality watch that most of us will never be able to detach from the stereotype. HEY!!!!! I'm on my fourth Landcruiser! Landcruiser is Lexus $$$ 
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| Author: | Driver8 [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
I think that ranges like Seiko's Ananta and Grand Seiko proves beyond any doubt (if indeed there was any) that the Japanese are more than capable of making watches that, on a technical basis, can easily stand up against a lot of prestige European brands. However, so much in the prestige watch arena is concerned about a lot more than just technical ability. Rightly or wrongly a huge amount is also to do with brand image, history, tradition, the name on the dial, etc, etc, and on that count the Japanese brands simply cannot compete on the same level. Call it snobbery if you like (and let's face it, it is!), but that's how the prestige watch-world works. I'm the first to admit I'm as guilty as anyone on that point, but I've also got no desire to change my viewpoint either! Additionally, as others have mentioned, the likes of Seiko also sell vast quantities of low end quartz pieces that, while undoubtedly raking in huge amounts of income for them, actually undermines the image of their high-end pieces. No matter how technically adept a company is, they simply can't buy an image or a heritage. Both have to be worked at and carefully nutured over many many years, and as a result Japanese firms are not in the same place, so don't carry the same kudos in that regard. This is why so many firms go out of there way to ensure that they make their watches in Switzerland so they can put the all important "Swiss Made" on their watches. Take Steinhart for example - their head office is based in Augsberg in Germany, but they make their watches a few miles away over the boarder in Jura in Switzerland. Why? Because being Swiss made carries more caché and respect than being German made when it comes to watches. It's all quite daft but that's how the prestige watch world ticks. |
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| Author: | The Engineer [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
sharkman wrote: RJRJRJ wrote: While they make very high end watches, we look at them as the Toyota of watches. Cheap, economical, for the masses. Its unfortunate since these guys make a quality watch that most of us will never be able to detach from the stereotype. HEY!!!!! I'm on my fourth Landcruiser! So they are not very reliable then?  Ian 
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| Author: | sharkman [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
The Engineer wrote: sharkman wrote: RJRJRJ wrote: While they make very high end watches, we look at them as the Toyota of watches. Cheap, economical, for the masses. Its unfortunate since these guys make a quality watch that most of us will never be able to detach from the stereotype. HEY!!!!! I'm on my fourth Landcruiser! So they are not very reliable then? Ian Never once had a problem, not once. 
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
The technical side is obvious - just ask Tag who are using a Japanese movement as the base for their new in house caliber. As has also been said though we don't buy watches simply for the movement and design, the image is part of it - and that's where the Japanese fall down, and will always fall short because of their mass market pieces. |
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| Author: | Drtymrtini [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
Driver8 wrote: Additionally, as others have mentioned, the likes of Seiko also sell vast quantities of low end quartz pieces that, while undoubtedly raking in huge amounts of income for them, actually undermines the image of their high-end pieces. No matter how technically adept a company is, they simply can't buy an image or a heritage. Well said - and pretty much right on. That's probably where my head is stuck. I see so many $20 watches from Seiko and Casio that I can't fathom dropping $4,500 on one of their watches. The status definitely plays into the decision of what to buy - and I think most people would see a $4,500 Seiko and think that you paid $150 for it because that's the public perception of Seiko or Casio. |
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| Author: | bryan [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
Hi, I'm really glad i buy watches from a totall other perspective than the most of us. Brands dont say a think to me, don't get me wrong i love my breitlings but on the other hand i really like my ananta SD chrono to. Bryan |
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| Author: | UofRSpider [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
I kind of agree with most of the posters... Except, a Citizen Campanola is an awesome watch. Citizen (imho) has taken their watch making to another level with regards to quartz watches. They have the normal line, the Signature line, and their prized Campanola line. The differences between the three watch lines are easily identifiable (especially the Campanola). My local jeweler (an AD for Citizen) cannot even get the Campanola line (I want one). Seiko's Ananta watch is awesome looking. I am not a Seiko guy so it does not interest me. However, the Citizens do (and I usually like swiss watches). I really did not make much sense here...just a few thoughts basically saying "to each their own." |
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| Author: | Blingal [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
Roffensian wrote: The technical side is obvious - just ask Tag who are using a Japanese movement as the base for their new in house caliber. As has also been said though we don't buy watches simply for the movement and design, the image is part of it - and that's where the Japanese fall down, and will always fall short because of their mass market pieces. I think at least Seiko may have understood this, and pretty recently too as they have started to call their "lower" range for Orient instead. So as to try and define a line between the high and the low end watches. So maybe in a couple of hundred years the will also have a heritage and tradition associated with the name Seiko. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
Blingal wrote: Roffensian wrote: The technical side is obvious - just ask Tag who are using a Japanese movement as the base for their new in house caliber. As has also been said though we don't buy watches simply for the movement and design, the image is part of it - and that's where the Japanese fall down, and will always fall short because of their mass market pieces. I think at least Seiko may have understood this, and pretty recently too as they have started to call their "lower" range for Orient instead. So as to try and define a line between the high and the low end watches. So maybe in a couple of hundred years the will also have a heritage and tradition associated with the name Seiko. Seiko already has a 100 plus years of history, the problem is that is not much relative to the Swiss and it's not what most casual watch lovers know them for. |
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| Author: | Drtymrtini [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
Roffensian wrote: Seiko already has a 100 plus years of history, the problem is that is not much relative to the Swiss and it's not what most casual watch lovers know them for. ---------------------------------------------------------- I see your point, but I guess the way I look at it is that the European "fine" watchmakers have stayed true to their craft and work to improve on "old" technology where Seiko threw aside "tradition" in order to implement modern technologies as soon as they were available - using cheaper movements, cheaper materials, etc.....their European competitors focused on quality vs. quantity and in the end, it really hurt their brand identity. |
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| Author: | bryan [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Japanese vs. European Watches |
Drtymrtini wrote: Roffensian wrote: Seiko already has a 100 plus years of history, the problem is that is not much relative to the Swiss and it's not what most casual watch lovers know them for. ---------------------------------------------------------- I see your point, but I guess the way I look at it is that the European "fine" watchmakers have stayed true to their craft and work to improve on "old" technology where Seiko threw aside "tradition" in order to implement modern technologies as soon as they were available - using cheaper movements, cheaper materials, etc.....their European competitors focused on quality vs. quantity and in the end, it really hurt their brand identity. So what you saying?,... that the grand seiko's and ananta's uses cheaper materials and movements as their european competitors???. Bryan |
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