The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Hi everyone,

As you can tell I'm a total newb to everything but have joined the breitling and panerai forum.

I am planning to get my first luxury watch and was wondering if people could comment on the zenith watch. The PAM is an obvious choice but I stumbled upon the zenith chronomaster open XXT in black dial with black strap and it looks really sophisticated.

I've done a search and a couple of people have mentioned it but I don't really know much about Zenith, is it a brand that is on par with panerai? What about the quality, service, durability, etc of the watch.

Is the chronomaster open the most common zenith watch people get?

There seems to be a big price difference between the PAM 112 and the zenith chronomaster perhaps due to the intricacy of the zenith detail?

Also, the black dial has a 'guilloche' version and wikipedia says it's some form of metal etching and I was wondering has anyone got experience between the 'normal' black dial and the 'guilloche' version and which would they recommend?

Anyway, thanks for reading and thanks in advance for the help!!

Cheers from Australia!

Welcome aboard. Lot's of questions!

Those two watches you mention are about as dissimilar as two dissimilar things in a pod! Very different pieces indeed.

The PAM112 is a typical "entry level" (if there is such a thing) Panerai. It's a base model and utilises a modified manual-wind ETA/Unitas movement. Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs here but I don't know how much you know about watches, but manual wind means you have to wind it everyday. Oh and ETA is a company that makes some of thw most widely (and hence common) movements in the world. They are good quality movements but far from unique. Panerai modify the movement but at it's heart it's still an ETA/Unitas movement. The PAM 112 is also one of the simplest watches around in as much as it tells the time and that's it : not even a date complication. Panerai have an extremely loyal fan-base and they will undoubtedly tell you that the Panerai is the way to go...... but that's because fans of the Panerai look may not go for the Zenith as they are very VERY different pieces.

By contrast the Zenith is much more dressy and complicated. You said that you believe the finishing is the reason for the price difference, and you are partially correct, but the detailing isn't the main reason. No, the main reason is the FANTASTIC movement that the Zenith is running. The El Primero movement is one of (if not the) finest automatic chronograph movement in the world. It beats at a much higher rate than just about all other movements (with a couple of very expensive exceptions) and is renowned as being accurate and hardy. It's an in-house movement (i.e. made entirely by Zenith) and is therefore WAY less common, and it's automatic so as long as you wear it you don't need to wind it. Additionally the Chronomaster is a chronograph watch so it has more fucntionality than the Panerai, but that may or may not be important to you.

In terms of finishing I'd say they are probably quite even although the Zenith is designed to be more dressy than the Panerai, so it may feel more finished. In terms of cost I'd personally say that I think you pay a lot for a Base Panerai given what's inside it, whereas I consider the Zenith Chronomaster to be something of a bargain given it's movement....... but then I'm a movement nut, so I'm a bit biased!

Oh and "guilloche" is just a form decoration, so it's something you either like or you don't. It has no bearing on the function of the watch, so it's purely an aesthetic thing.

I like both brands a lot, and I really like the Chronomaster (not a fan of the 112 personally), so on that basis I'd recommend the Zenith, but ultimately (and this is really important) only you can decide which you prefer. Try them both on and see which one sings to you. Good luck!

Hopefully that's answered a few of your questions!

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Driver8

Site Moderator

Hey Driver8

Thanks so much for the detailed and sincere answer. It must get pretty boring answering newbie questions all the time so I appreciate your time and effort.

I've been doing some youtubing for the movement of the zenith and it is absolutely amazing. Funnily enough, I used to work at Louis Vuitton and the LVMH group own zenith so one of our selling points was to say that Louis vuitton watches weren't a 'fashion' watch and we were 'serious' because we use the craftmanship of Zenith. We had a spiel about how the el primero was used in Rolex watches in the past blah blah blah. It's only now that I can fully appreciate what you're talking about.

Without meaning to offend the PAM family but would you say that the Zenith chronomaster is less 'common' than the entry level PAMs 112, 000 and 111?

Finally, this sounds a bit silly but the youtube videos of the chronomaster showed the 'big' second hand moving (not just the 9 o'clock position one) and I assume it's moving because the person activated the chronograph function. Would it ruin the mechanics/longevity the watch out if I left the chronograph function constantly on because I like watching the big sweeping motion of the second hand - there's just something sexy about it. But I don't want to 'wear' the watch out if that's not what it's supposed to do?

Thanks again!!

First of all you're absolutely welcome - it's not boring answering questions at all - if it was I wouldn't bother!

Zenith definitely aren't a "fashion" brand : they most certainly are a serious manufacturer, so you can't go far wrong with them.

In terms of the "big hand" moving, then yes the owner had activated the chronograph. The jury's out on whether constantly running the chronograph will cause excessive wear. On the one hand you could argue that using something will cause more wear than not using it - think of a car : if you store it then it won't show any wear. But on the other hand, not using something for a while, and then using it can cause an adverse effect because the oils will start to congeal and pool away from where they need to be. Think of a car again - if you found a car that had been in sore for a few years you might find it hard to start and if you did you mifght find the lack of effective lubrication doing damage. On balance I'd say there's that running the chrono has no long term damage and if you stick to the 3 to 5 year service intervals you'll have no problems at all. The only thing that running the chrono will do is sap the power reserve a little more than not running it, but if you're wearing it all the time that's of no problem anyway.

And yes IMO the Zenith definitely is less common than the Panerai models you mention. Partially because of the price and partly because of the fact that Panerai is currently a "hot brand" to own.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

I have the silver dial Zenith Chronomaster XXT Open Grande Date and love it, it's an incredible watch and I would hoghly recommend it.

It is going to be less common than a PAM, although you could argue that it is also less practical - it's a tough watch to dress down.

Driver8 has set you straight on just about everything else.

My review of the Zenith is here - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13296

thanks driver8 and roffensian!

@roffensian - do you have the chronograph function operating all the time? I read you review and thanks for that - stunning watch!

@driver8 - how long does it normally take to service a watch? the reason I ask is that there doesn't seem to be an AD in Australia and therefore, no-one to service/repair the watch locally which would mean that the only time I can get it serviced is if I'm on holiday in an area where there is an AD/service centre. Sounds pretty crazy! I can't believe that New Zealand has an AD but we don't (no offense to our neighbours!)

oh and I'm totally set on the zenith now as opposed to the PAM. Just means I need to save money and not eat or drink for a while

I'm not sure about Zenith but Breitling servicing can take up to 12 weeks. This seems like a long time (and it is!) but that's because standard servicing takes second place to warranty work. The good news is that you should only have to get it serviced once every 3 to 5 years if you look after it.

In terms of where you get it serviced you can (fairly) easily send it abroad to get it done. It's not ideal I know, but if I was you I'd take the opportunity to send it to Switzerland and have your servicing done there. (If you can't get it done in Oz, and have to send it abroad anyway, you may as well get it done at the head-office).

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Driver8

Site Moderator

@driver8 - thanks for the clarification. i'm going zenith hunting now!

Get the PAM!

Seriously though, the Panerai is a fantastic and versatile watch. You can dress is up on the croco or calf strap and wear it comfortably with a Brioni suit, or put it on a rubber strap and throw on a pair of jeans and a t-shirt. I love the Zenith, but it is definitely a dressier watch. I think it is a much better option for a second or third watch as opposed to your one nice Swiss piece.

Just my .02, and you can't go wrong with either option!

I only use the chronograph when I want to time something, but I always make sure that my chronogrpahs run for a full 24 hours at least once a month to keep the oils moving.

I've been told, so don't know if it's true, that Zentith produces about the same number of watches/year as Breitling does of a single model.

Next week I'm "upgrading" my Chronomaster XXT (shocking, I know) for a Chronomaster XT "Moonage." Day, date, month, +moon phase - really nice silver guilloche dial. Not an open model.

One question - The Zenith's with El Primero movements I've looked at do not have a hacking feature. Anyone know why??

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SHARKMAN

This one-

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SHARKMAN

Y can I not find that on their website? I always feel like I can never see all their models ever!

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SA-Baton White Dial/ProII
Tissot Le Locle

It's not a 2010 model, but it does show up in a book my AD gave me. Reference #03.1250.4009/01.C495. Most of the watches I see at the AD I can't find on the website. IDK.

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SHARKMAN

Ya I need a booklet.

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SA-Baton White Dial/ProII
Tissot Le Locle