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The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Feature ??
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Author:  telgar [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Feature ??
I have just recently 'joined the club' by buying a Breitling Chronomat. I am far far far from being a watch connoisseur and have only been researching watches closely for about a month but wanted to raise a question that probably has no answer... but here goes.
Can one suggest (or is there something that exists already) a list of all the different watch brands in order of how good they are/price/quality/some other useful criteria?
I was allured to getting a Breitling, but I am trying to figure out its position in the pecking order of the overall vast universe of (luxury) watches.
Hope I haven't opened pandora's box :-) ... but looking forward to some discussion and to learn something from masters out there.

Tal
Author:  Mikey [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
telgar wrote:
. . .
Can one suggest (or is there something that exists already) a list of all the different watch brands in order of how good they are/price/quality/some other useful criteria?
. . .
Hope I haven't opened pandora's box :-) ...


Welcome to the forum! You have indeed opened something, be it Pandora's box or a can of worms.

What you want is impossible; it depends too much on subjective judgment. And all the stuff you read in the internet or in catalogs, whether good or bad, true or false, polite or brash, it all means nothing really when you strap on a watch in person. Hang around the forums, this one is great, especially for Breitling, but there are other good ones out there. Visit watch dealers and try on a few. You'll soon learn a lot, at times more than you want to know.

Peace

Mike
Author:  Roffensian [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
Yeah, we are chasing unicorns if we try and nail this down.

I guess that if we are going to poll independent watch lovers (if such a thing can exist) then none of your poll brands would be close to 'best' - you are looking at brands like Patek Philippe, A Lange & Sohne or one of the ultra high end boutique brands.

For me a brand has to be a manufacture to be in the running for best - so Breitling qualifies after the B01 movement - although some would argue that they still need a haute horlogerie piece or two to gain entry to the club.

As Mikey says though, watch ownership is about how they make you feel when you strap them on - even if no one else thinks that it is anywhere close to the best. I have paid quite a lot of money for watches that most people on here wouldn't even glance at, but who cares - I didn't buy them for other people.
Author:  Driver8 [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
As the other guys have said, this is a hugely subjective area, and depends on what you personal think are the most important qualities in a watch. Like Roff, my "rating" is always based on the type and quality of movements the company employs, and to be considered at all, a watch maker must also be a manufacturer (which all these 4 are).

However, for the sake of generating discussion (and probably controversy :wink: ), I will put a stake in the ground with my own personal take on the 4 options you put forward -

Top of those 4 is in my opinion JLC by some margin. Loads of very high quality in-house movements and actually a lot of bang for your buck (even though they are a lot of money).

Second I would rate Rolex. More than one in-house movement, plus a brand that every other watch maker on earth would kill for.

Third I'd go for Omega (sorry guys!). They have one true in-house movement - the 8500, but they also employ a "brand exclusive" movement in the form of the 3313, and they currently sell a range for pieces with plenty of different types of movement such as rattrapante models that Breitling currently don't (although they have in the past).

That puts Breitling in 4th place here IMO, as they have the B01 but not a lot of "exciting" other movements in the range, although it is a fairly close-run thing IMO between them and Omega.

Anyway, that's my personal view on it, and I'm not remotely expecting others to agree! :D
Author:  Otto [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
Confining it strictly to those 4, and acknowledging the subjective nature of the question, I would put them: JLC, then Rolex, then Omega, then Breitling.

Same order as D8, but IMO there's a distinct gap between each of them.

This is a product of the criteria that are important to me. Somebody who values (say) brand recognition above all else and does not care about in-house movements or innovation would probably have a different order (and vice versa).
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
Otto wrote:
Same order as D8, but IMO there's a distinct gap between each of them.


Regrettably I agree on the gap as regards Omega and Breitling.

A couple of years ago Omega and Breitling would have been fairly close in my book, but if you ignore aesthetic choice and look simply at the watchmaking side of things, Omega has more complications, a larger percentage of full or partially in house pieces, innovation with the co-axial escapement.

Breitling can close the gap again with advancements on the B01 platform, and to be generous the gap may only be the result of an independent firm vs. a corporate powerhouse in a tough economy, but for now I think the gap is fairly wide.
Author:  dhalem [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
I agree with the other's comments and general ordering, but how can you leave out IWC and Panerai?
Author:  telgar [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
Guys, thanks for stepping up to the challenge.
I like the different metaphors used, including chasing Unicorns. To add another one, I am just trying to find a method in the madness. I agree this is a highly subjective topic and I guess as I was coming at this more from a Breitling perspective, rather a purely neutral perspective I was looking for some substance/facts in the universe of watches (which you guys have started addressing btw:)). It is also interesting and makes it more objective to see that you 'admit' Breitling might be a bit behind even though you yourselves own Breitlings (unless I wrongly assumed this).
Thanks.
Author:  Driver8 [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
telgar wrote:
It is also interesting and makes it more objective to see that you 'admit' Breitling might be a bit behind even though you yourselves own Breitlings (unless I wrongly assumed this).

I think you will definitely find that there are a lot of us here who just enjoy watches full stop. That we happen to own a number of Breitling watches, and be on a Breitling forum doesn't necessary cloud our opinions too much........ well, not too often anyway! :wink:

From a personal perspective, I've loved Breitling watches for years (just not the very latest models) and nothing would give me greater pleasure horologically speaking, than seeing Breitling rise to the challenge of some of the other watch makers out there and really up their game. As it is, they are still producing some very solid, very nicely made and engineered pieces, but unfortunately they just aren't setting the world alight from an innovation standpoint at the moment. (And the less said about their 2010 designs the better! :wink: )

I think that Breitling are actually lowering their aims with regards to target audience (despite the excellent B01 movement) - possibly to the Tag kind of level - whilst the likes of Omega are actually raising their sights (and their prices!) to try and compete at a slightly higher level. As Roff rightly said, Omega have the might of the Swatch group behind them, whereas Breitling are still an independent firm, so the difference in funding is likely to be considerable.
Author:  RJRJRJ [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
From the 4 you mention, JLC is leagues ahead of the other three. Aside from the fact that every movement they make is in-house and many other very high end brands turn to them for movements, they are also the most innovative ultra high end brand out there, IMO. On top of that they have a ton of interesting watches and such a diverse collection, unlike some of the other high end stuff that pretty much gets you a stereotypical looking dress watch with more or less complications according to the price you pay.

Next id put Rolex just so slightly above Breitling and Omega because of their all in-house movements, however basic they might be.

Breitling and Omega would be a tie. Sure, Omega has the coax and some high end complications, but the coax is not exactly revolutionary, and the complications dont really represent the general line enough to have much of an impact to me.

BTW, this link should be what youre looking for. Its the best comparison ive come across:
http://chronocentric.com/watches/brands.shtml
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
RJRJRJ wrote:
but the coax is not exactly revolutionary


Not sure I agree with that RJ cubed.

It's a fundamentally different way of regulating the rate of the watch and has practical benefits not just in terms of accuracy, but also in terms of maintenance. It's the first significant step forward in how escapements work for hundreds of years.
Author:  RJRJRJ [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
Roffensian wrote:
RJRJRJ wrote:
but the coax is not exactly revolutionary


Not sure I agree with that RJ cubed.

It's a fundamentally different way of regulating the rate of the watch and has practical benefits not just in terms of accuracy, but also in terms of maintenance. It's the first significant step forward in how escapements work for hundreds of years.


I agree with that, but I was mainly referring to the practical benefits to the user. From the information ive come across, the merits such as increased accuracy and less frequent service intervals are debatable at best.

(btw, I swear im not stalking you with my reply just minutes after your response :lol: )
Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
RJRJRJ wrote:
Roffensian wrote:
RJRJRJ wrote:
but the coax is not exactly revolutionary


Not sure I agree with that RJ cubed.

It's a fundamentally different way of regulating the rate of the watch and has practical benefits not just in terms of accuracy, but also in terms of maintenance. It's the first significant step forward in how escapements work for hundreds of years.


I agree with that, but I was mainly referring to the practical benefits to the user. From the information ive come across, the merits such as increased accuracy and less frequent service intervals are debatable at best.

(btw, I swear im not stalking you with my reply just minutes after your response :lol: )


The stalkers are getting crowded now anyway :wink:

Omega obviously believes the benefits are real - they offer an extra year on the warranty of their co-axials.
Author:  RJRJRJ [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
Roffensian wrote:
RJRJRJ wrote:
Roffensian wrote:
Not sure I agree with that RJ cubed.

It's a fundamentally different way of regulating the rate of the watch and has practical benefits not just in terms of accuracy, but also in terms of maintenance. It's the first significant step forward in how escapements work for hundreds of years.


I agree with that, but I was mainly referring to the practical benefits to the user. From the information ive come across, the merits such as increased accuracy and less frequent service intervals are debatable at best.

(btw, I swear im not stalking you with my reply just minutes after your response :lol: )


The stalkers are getting crowded now anyway :wink:

Omega obviously believes the benefits are real - they offer an extra year on the warranty of their co-axials.


Yeah, but just about anybody could add a year to the warranty if they charged you a premium and it helped make a compelling case for their new invention. I just compare it to something like a Rolex 3135, which while being fairly pedestrian in design and innovation, is probably one of the (if the the) most robust, reliable, and accurate movements ever made. There is really nothing flashy or particularly interesting about the 3135, but its performance and track record speak for itself. Maybe in 20 years ill stick my foot in my mouth, but I doubt it.
Author:  alex** [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Ultimate Watch Index ??? Where does Breitling Featur
i agree with the order that D8 and others have given however id rather own a breitling over an omega even given the result.

that said i dont like much of the new stuff from breitling and from a watch manufacture POV they need to start getting the B01 in models and go back to adding some good complications preferably not just limited to 20 in precious metal
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