The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Ok, so there's been a lot of talk lately about brands that (in some opinions) are stupid waste of money for a nice case/look. I'm talking about the recent posts on Hublot, and a few thoughts here and there about AP (I'm sure there are others, but Hublot and AP come to mind first). To be honest, I always thought Hublot had in-house movements... Something, THAT high-end (at least I consider it that), with a regular movement? I was surprised to say the least, same with AP. Anyways, I am just wondering, what manufacturers produce in-house movements for all their watches (Patek as one example I'm 100% sure (I hope....) but not 100% sure of others)? and which watches are in-house movements but is "different" from the brand (Breitling's B01, only in-house movement by Breitling)? I am really asking more for a list than anything else.

I am far from being able to purchase an in-house movement timepiece as they tend to be much more expensive than conventional ones, but I really would prefer to own only in-house movements (not jsut for the accuracy but the fact that it has a different vibe to it, idk, I just feel that way).

Thanks,
crasian1030


Oh, and also, when a watch movement is listed as "modified _______-movement (ETA, valjoux etc.)" what exactly does that mean? Obviously its modified, but how exactly can you modify a movement to make it more accurate or the fact that you can modify it and still have it work? It seems like it'd be easier just to create your own movement.

That list will take a long time to put together!

There are a lot of companies that are manufactures, I'll try and find a list that someone else pulled together because with all of the boutique firms in the mechanical renaissance it will take a long time to pull a comprehensive list together, especially distinguishing between all in house vs. partially in house. And that's before we start with 'in family' movements.

In terms of what gets modified, usually the running train, escapement and often finishing. Modification could be reworking or replacing. There are also things like replacing the rotor with a brand specific one.

Oh haha ok.

Now "in-family"? i've never heard of that before, what is it exactly...?

Ok, i guess I knew the finishing part of modifying movements, but I was always thinking of modifying as changing the positions of the gears and stuff, guess I was wrong!

Thanks for the info!

Using movements produced by other firms within the same corporate ownership. Many watch brands are owned by the same corporation, if they use movements made by the corporation, but under the branding of another marque then it is not truly in house, but it also isn't 3rd party.



A watch calibre is the layout of plates, bridges, wheels, etc - you can't just move them around and expect the watch to work.

Thanks for the thread. Watch noob here soaking it all in and learning a lot.

Isn't Rolex one of the biggest companies to produce all their movements in-house?

Peace

Mike

Yes that's right. In fact, Rolex are one of the biggest watch companies full stop.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

The first 4 that come to my mind: Rolex, JLC, PP, Seiko. I know these guys have only in-house movements. Im sure others like A. Lange or Glashutte Original etc. are in the same category, but im not sure if they have "lower end" models with outsourced movements in them.

On a side note (to OP) AP makes some very nice in-house movements. They share some design characteristics with Hublot, but their movements are considered far superior by most people familiar with them.

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-RJ

Oh ok, ya then I've heard of watches like that. What about brands that aren't primarily watch producers, like Coach or Lacoste, if I'm not wrong, they have movements from Movado, right?

Id guess not since Movado doesnt have their own movements. Most Movados use some inexpensive quartz units, but a few others use ETA.

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-RJ

None of the fashion brands have anything close to inhouse - just generic movements, frequently quartz and often not Swiss.

Ralph Lauren has just launched high end watches and the watch division is half owned by Ralph Lauren and half by the Richemont Group so they use Richemont brand movements.

How can the huge price difference between AP, Omega, Hublot or Patek can be justified? Don't they practically use the same movement? Does the level of finishing or the materials used suffice to justify that difference? And why does Breitling have, comparatively, lower prices (even with their new in-house movement)? This surely can not mean that Breitlings are not as good as the makes mentioned above.

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- This is Ghost Rider requesting a fly-by. - Negative Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.

Why is an Acura more expensive than a Honda? Why is Tylenol more expensive than Acetaminophen? You're paying for the brand.

I doubt you'll find universal agreement with this statement.

And in the case of Patek, I may be wrong but I don't think they use "practically the same movement" as anybody else.

Patek most definitely does NOT use "practically the same movement"!!!! Heck, they even started to set their own standards with their new mark (I forget the name.)

Oh where do we start........

I would argue that Breitling does not have "comparatively, lower prices (even with their new in-house movement)" than Omega. And Omega has a heck of a lot more in house movements, and a lot more innovation in those movements - coaxial escapement anyone???

Comparing a Breitling movement, whether 3rd party or in house with PP is just ridiculous. Are PP worth the money, well maybe, but they are in a different class from Breitling.

With AP and Hublot the comparison to Breitling is somewhat fairer, but the basic economics of supply and demand kick in - Breitling go out of there way to produce as many watches as they possibly can (or at least that the market will bear) as opposed to AP and Hublot who control volumes to retain a degree of exclusivity that just doesn't exist with Breitling outside of the super limited LEs.

Breitling make some great watches, but they aren't comparable with super premium brands.