There's a thread with a few comments on that topic here.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11940&p=94015&hilit=laws#p94015
Hope this helps.
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| Is the Replica Market Illegal? https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13233 |
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| Author: | Drtymrtini [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
I don't get it. How can companies openly market replicas of fine watches? Aren't there copyright/patent laws or something that would prevent them from doing so? How do they get away with this and stay in business? Sorry if this topic has been discussed before - I'm still terrible at searching this site. Thank you. |
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| Author: | br549 [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
There's a thread with a few comments on that topic here. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11940&p=94015&hilit=laws#p94015 Hope this helps. |
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| Author: | Sharkmouth [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
100% illegal. I had my say on the above thread so I won't repeat it all here. |
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| Author: | Driver8 [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
Yep it's 100% illegal to produce fakes, but (as Sharky said on the other thread), the various countries around the globe have varying stances on the sales and purchase of fakes. Here in the UK for example, it's ILLEGAL to sell a fake, but it's perfectly LEGAL to buy and own one. On the continent it tends to be illegal to both sell AND buy a fake. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
The biggest problem continues to be one of enforcement - if it's illegal and unenforced then there is no reason for companies to stop. Hopefully there will be a clampdown at some point - we saw it with music downloads, many countries are now doing it with people who run businesses selling on eBay and don't declare the income, hopefully there will be a similar drive against fakes sometime soon. There are occasional 'wins' for the good guys - there were a bunch of arrests last week in various countries for a ring selling counterfeit golf clubs on eBay. |
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| Author: | dhalem [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
Roffensian wrote: Hopefully there will be a clampdown at some point - we saw it with music downloads, ??? Music downloads haven't changed a bit. In fact they continue to rise. The legalities of it are extremely fuzzy. There's a big difference between selling a fake as a fake vs selling it as real. Most of us are quite happy to pay less for generic versions of medications, right? Anyone really interested should read William Patry's new book: http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Panics-Copy ... 954&sr=8-1 |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
dhalem wrote: Roffensian wrote: Hopefully there will be a clampdown at some point - we saw it with music downloads, ??? Music downloads haven't changed a bit. /quote] Right - I forgot - Napster hasn't changed it's business model at all as a result of lawsuits 
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| Author: | dhalem [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
Roffensian wrote: dhalem wrote: Roffensian wrote: Hopefully there will be a clampdown at some point - we saw it with music downloads, ??? Music downloads haven't changed a bit. /quote] Right - I forgot - Napster hasn't changed it's business model at all as a result of lawsuits Yes, Napster is gone. But you're way way way behind the times if you think that is how people download music. Pirate Bay and others are still doing quite well, as well as the various Russian download sites. Ironically enough, several music execs have expressed regret for suing Napster out of existence instead of working with them to create a viable model. |
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| Author: | Drtymrtini [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
I guess what I don't understand is how companies can blatantly market replicas and fakes and openly ship them here to the U.S. knowing what our laws are (not sure if it's as easy in other parts of the world) without getting into trouble. And not to derail my own thread, but I am in the entertainment industry and while piracy still does exist with music and movie downloads, to Roffensian' point, the U.S. and UK markets clamped down big-time on piracy and legal downloads of music has increased substantially. However, the music industry/record labels is what drove the clampdown. That being said, if the watchmakers don't make it a priority, it won't happen. Finally, I guess I have to agree with an earlier poster and look at it differently now. In the music industry, if you pirate a song - you are stealing the actual song - not a bad "copy" of the song. In the watch industry, I guess if I were Rolex, or Breitling, Omega, or whomever, I'd figure, "Hey, if they can only afford $300 for a fake, they can't afford $5,000 - $10,000 for the real thing - so I'm not really "losing" anything." Point being - people who knowingly buy fakes aren't lost customers and I guess I can understand the rationale of the watchmakers letting it go. Why waste a ton of money litigating and chasing money you wouldn't have gotten anyway. And I guess it can't hurt your brand either. Thanks guys! |
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| Author: | Driver8 [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
Drtymrtini wrote: In the watch industry, I guess if I were Rolex, or Breitling, Omega, or whomever, I'd figure, "Hey, if they can only afford $300 for a fake, they can't afford $5,000 - $10,000 for the real thing - so I'm not really "losing" anything." Point being - people who knowingly buy fakes aren't lost customers and I guess I can understand the rationale of the watchmakers letting it go. Why waste a ton of money litigating and chasing money you wouldn't have gotten anyway. And I guess it can't hurt your brand either. Thanks guys! That is actually a very VERY good point there, and one I've not really thought about before. I personally hate fakes with a passion, but when you look at it like that they probably don't actually hurt the brand in terms of lost sales. Obviously there is the copyright and trademark theft (and I guess you could argue theft of "intellectual property rights"), but in terms hurting the brand in the pocket..... well, it's probably not that much. It would certainly explain why the big manufactures do absolutely nothing to combat it themselves, other than just say "Always buy from an AD". If a fake looks "good", then it's probably actually free marketing for them as it may well encourage others to look up the brand (the genuine brand), and if it looks rubbish then it's a case of "Oh well, it's a fake and NOTHING like our genuine timepieces". I think the people that fakes are far more likely to hurt are the consumers who end up getting duped into buying a fake thinking it's real, and even those who buy fakes knowing they're fake but thinking they are getting quality. The fake industry also probably hurts the people who make the damn things in sweat-shops in China for peanuts (although I guess even that could be argued that at least it's employment and income). |
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| Author: | dhalem [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
Driver8 wrote: The fake industry also probably hurts the people who make the damn things in sweat-shops in China for peanuts (although I guess even that could be argued that at least it's employment and income). Unfortunately, most of what we buy today(shoes, clothes, electronics) is made that way in China. That's a pretty weak argument against fakes. |
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| Author: | Driver8 [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
dhalem wrote: Driver8 wrote: The fake industry also probably hurts the people who make the damn things in sweat-shops in China for peanuts (although I guess even that could be argued that at least it's employment and income). Unfortunately, most of what we buy today(shoes, clothes, electronics) is made that way in China. That's a pretty weak argument against fakes. Granted, but I tend to hope (perhaps falsely) that products bought by High St stores come from "reputable" Chinese factories with decent working conditions and pay (relevative to the local cost of living), etc. You can pretty much guarantee that fakes won't be produced in that manner. |
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| Author: | Carlos [ Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
Driver8 wrote: Drtymrtini wrote: In the watch industry, I guess if I were Rolex, or Breitling, Omega, or whomever, I'd figure, "Hey, if they can only afford $300 for a fake, they can't afford $5,000 - $10,000 for the real thing - so I'm not really "losing" anything." Point being - people who knowingly buy fakes aren't lost customers and I guess I can understand the rationale of the watchmakers letting it go. Why waste a ton of money litigating and chasing money you wouldn't have gotten anyway. And I guess it can't hurt your brand either. Thanks guys! That is actually a very VERY good point there, and one I've not really thought about before. I personally hate fakes with a passion, but when you look at it like that they probably don't actually hurt the brand in terms of lost sales. Obviously there is the copyright and trademark theft (and I guess you could argue theft of "intellectual property rights"), but in terms hurting the brand in the pocket..... well, it's probably not that much. It would certainly explain why the big manufactures do absolutely nothing to combat it themselves, other than just say "Always buy from an AD". If a fake looks "good", then it's probably actually free marketing for them as it may well encourage others to look up the brand (the genuine brand), and if it looks rubbish then it's a case of "Oh well, it's a fake and NOTHING like our genuine timepieces". I think the people that fakes are far more likely to hurt are the consumers who end up getting duped into buying a fake thinking it's real, and even those who buy fakes knowing they're fake but thinking they are getting quality. The fake industry also probably hurts the people who make the damn things in sweat-shops in China for peanuts (although I guess even that could be argued that at least it's employment and income). I agree – I think the major brands tolerate it for a number of reasons. Indeed, if one were to browse some fakes at a market, walking past the inevitable stable of Rolexes, Patek Phillipes, Omegas and Tags, one would almost be put out if Breitling wasn’t represented. Is it not a serious luxury brand worthy of counterfeiting? Whilst not my current practice, I have worked as an intellectual property lawyer, and in modern developed countries in which the rule of law is enforced, there are a lot of actions companies could take in relation to the trade, but don’t. I know I was annoyed when I started to see “high end” Bentley Gt fakes for $300-400 on-line a couple of years ago. The outer slide rule ring is always too broad, and the case never shaped quite properly, but they would fool most observers…until they stoped working or parts of the dial corrode, which often happens within a few years. Ultimately, a fake can never deliver anything like the enjoyment of a real piece. I’m sure there are plenty of people out there who have started out wearing fakes, and after throwing out the third disposable Daytona decide to invest in a real watch. |
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| Author: | Mofongo [ Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is the Replica Market Illegal? |
My theory is that the watch brands tolerate replicas because they believe that it keeps people buying from ADs. Look at Breiting's website: "99% of the Breitling watches for sale on the Net are fakes." That is a preposterous claim, really. How do you even measure that? They clearly want me to go to an AD instead of looking for an authentic used Breitling somewhere else. I think in the long run, this hurts them, really. People who like to buy new watches can buy more of them if they can sell their used ones. Having a more liquid market is almost always good for manufacturer and consumer in the long run. --Mofongo |
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