The Breitling Watch Source Forums

This has been around for a while as an 'experiment', but I noticed more activity at the Purists recently and there is an article in the August International Watch so I guess that there is some confidence that this is going to become real.

Chopard have been experimenting with a high speed escapement that will beat at 10 Hz - a frankly staggering 72,000 vph (or 1,728,000 vibrations per day or 630,720,000 vibrations per year - do you see why it's staggering?).

Maybe more incredibly, Chopard are looking to be able to retrofit this escapement into their existing movements - or at least their in house movements. That means that they are producing the escapement without any modifications to the running train, and very little in the way of challenges to the balance.

They are achieving all of this with the escape wheel and the pallet fork, and following the lead of Ulysse Nardin they are using silicon to do it. Silicon has the distinct advantage of being a lot lighter than brass or steel, and it needs no lubrication. More importantly it can be produced to much tighter tolerances than brass or steel.

What chopard are doing is producing a one piece (no jewels) silicon pallet and a silicon escape wheel that has 2.5 times as many teeth as a conventional steel escape wheel (to speed up the frequency from 4 Hz to 10 Hz).

Chopard haven't confirmed production yet, but I have to believe that they are becoming confident if they are allowing media access, so look for this maybe as early as Basel next year. The fact that the efforts are on allowing the escapement to be retrofitted to an existing movement also suggests that this isn't going to be exclusively for grand complications either. Granted Chopard only produce a few thousand in house movements a year, but this is an exciting development.

There are still some questions around the durability / longevity of silicon, simply because it is so new, but it does seem set to fundamentally change mechanical watchmaking!

Wow, that will be an awesome development if it becomes an affordable reality. (And I think the key is "affordable" here!) It will be an unbelievably smooth movement.

The El Primero will be consigned to the history books in terms of the highest beating movement awards!

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Driver8

Site Moderator

Well the test bed for the escapement has been the 1.96 that powers the 1860 watches. Their entry point is currently around $16,000 so it would appear that they are serious about making it attainable. I'm sure that there will be a premium (and probably a large one), but we aren't into seriously exclusive territory.

Maybe they'll come down into my price range then

Back on-topic, this is very interesting news. Thanks for posting, Roff.

Silicon materials are often used in high wear areas due to their low friction potential and low rate of wear (even against steel). I've used them as wear strips on tunneling machines with success.

What does 10hz get you?

A hell of a lot more accuracy.

Longines produced a 5 Hz movement that they guaranteed to + / - 2 seconds a day, while general consensus is that you need a very good 3 Hz or good 4 Hz movement to reach COSC standards.

10 Hz should be remarkably accurate, and it will also help to eliminate variations in different positions.

As Roff rightly said, a higher "vibration rate" generally makes for a more accurate movement (assuming that it's a quality construction and regulated appropriately of course!). I think it probably fair to say that it's "easier" for a high-vibration movement to be more accurate, hence why Roff said that a 3Hz movement (such as the 51111 in my Big Pilot) has to be exceptionally good to meet Chronometer specs. The Zenith El Primero at 5Hz is well known for being a very accurate movement, although unlike the Longines that Roff mentioned I don't have any figures to quote you.

A 10Hz movement would have the potential for incredible accuracy as well as a super-smooth "sweep" to the second hand, as it would effectively be making more tiny movements per second.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

It will also allow for a chronograph that can measure smaller fractions of a second.

The sweep will be just incredible - the gearing between the 4th wheel and the escape wheel shaft is supposedly unchanged with all of the change being in the teeth of the escape wheel - 50 teeth rotating once every 5 seconds.

Let's just hope Chopard put it in something that's not too dressy, because with the exception of the Mille Miglia pieces (which I think are OK), I'm not a huge fan of their designs.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

just found this, quite intresting...

http://chopard.watchprosite.com/show-fo ... ti-532381/

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Pain is only weakness leaving the body.

sounds unreal~~ and unreal as in a good way

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"I don't got the bright watch I got the right watch" -Jay Z

That is interesting and make sense. This effect is also what makes quartz watches so cheaply accurate: 32,000 Hz.

Paradoxically, however, the 2.5Hz movement (18,000vph) in my Dornblueth is actually my most accurate watch! It's +2 sec/day. All my Breitlings are between +4 and +6 per day. The Dornblueth is a pretty large movement, however, and a manual.

Is it easier to make manuals more accurate than automatics for some reason?

--M

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." --Dave Barry

Isocronism is the ability of a watch movement to maintain the same rate as the mainspring unwinds. Typically, the power is reduced and the balance does not swing as far as when the watch is fully wound. An improperly adjusted watch will usually speed up and then slow dramatically as the power is lost. There are too many factors to go into a long dissertation about compensating for different positions and isocronism.

An automatic will only wind so far and then the spring slips in the barrel. Wearing the watch tends to keep it more fully wound and the power is more constant. However, the automatic mechanism is not used during certification. The movement has to be adjusted for correct rate over the 24 hour period. So, actual conditions vary from test conditions.

One should see very little difference between properly adjusted movements, whether they are manual wind or automatic. Your manual wind movement is very well compensated. The watchmaker who adjusted it deserves congratulations.

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1809 Cosmonaute
1903 Navi
Navi Olympus
Super Avenger

And as I learn I speak from experience that this isn't easy!

I read the charts that tell you how to compensate for errors in the balance, I make the adjustments and then time the watch in a different position...........




The next step generally involves swearing

Hope you're not working with a split balance wheel. They are notoriously difficult to correct for positional errors. It must be true in the flat and in the round; and be in excellent poise or you will waste hours trying to get it. Even then, the old adage about silk purses and sows ears applies!

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1809 Cosmonaute
1903 Navi
Navi Olympus
Super Avenger