Seiko?

breanach78 · **Posted:** Sun May 05, 2013 1:21 am

wessa wrote:

joe6263 wrote:

Roffensian wrote:

It's a $3,000 quartz Seiko.

Nuff said for me.

I agree with Roff its a $3,000 Seiko quartz. Not something I would buy personally I do like Grand Seiko though.

And this raises an interesting question that I have difficulty answering.
Why would I be happy to spend $4K on a quatz Aerospace or Chronospace but not $3K on an all singing and dancing Seiko? Is it simply down to brand prestige?

It probably is,

I love the Seiko monster and have two, totally bomb proof and an in-house movement too, I always maintain that if it had a Swiss makers name on the dial it would be 20 times the price, say 3000$ instead of 150€. I don't know of one SM owner ever been disappointed, and its a Sekio.

Regards the Seiko astron, I really like the idea of it a lot, downfalls for me are the look, the price for a Seiko I'm afraid.

I would love to know how I'd feel if it had Breitling on the dial! Like Wessa suggests there may be difficultly answering that for some.

joe6263 · **Posted:** Sun May 05, 2013 2:18 am

I like seiko they make some nice watches, But for me I have never liked quartz and only ever owned one quartz and sold it. So for me if it had seiko or breitling on the dial I would still not buy it regardless of the price.

Etodd31856! · **Posted:** Sun May 05, 2013 10:59 am

Thanks for all the opinions. I have been looking for a knock around watch and just noticed that you can get all the same functions of the astron in a g-shock. So after reading all your thoughts I think I am of the opinion that 3k is a lot for a quartz watch. Realizing that there is a differential for materials (g-shock is all resin and steel). Having said all of that, I still like the cronospace but only time will tell if I will drop 5k on it. Clearly the idea of hundreds of pieces put together by hand that keeps near perfect time and other complications is excellence and a bit of a miracle which will never change and clearly worth the big bucks we all spend.

Thanks again for all the responses :lingsrock:

boogiebot · **Posted:** Sun May 05, 2013 11:08 am

3k on a quartz seiko seems expensive to me. i would get better value out of a ghsock or even one of those Citizen skyhawks.

as for grand seikos, i have seen some of the pieces and they do look like they have a great finish and quality piece. but its really hard for me to wrap my head around spending that type of money because i still relate it to the seiko brand.

P51 · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 2:31 am

Quote:

I would love to know how I'd feel if it had Breitling on the dial! Like Wessa suggests there may be difficultly answering that for some.

This is a good question and I am going to give it my best guess. It’s a generalisation of course, as I can’t speak for everyone, only myself.

I can’t speak for you breanach78, as you need to make that assessment for yourself. But I also think you are showing the answers to your question in your comments. However, in general terms, would we have been dismissive of this watch if it had Breitling on the face instead of Seiko? In one sense, no. I doubt we would have even if it were a really bad watch. I would go so far to say that there would have been a cacophony of plaudits extolling the virtues and desirability of this one, even if we did not want one ourselves, just because it’s a Breitling. In another sense, we can only guess what the real answer would be, as our wondering lacks a certain realism. That’s because we don’t know this watch at all.

But say we did know this one intimately as a Breitling model (and it was exactly the same as the Seiko model) and we knew the quality and the level of finish and features, etc, that the watch represented; then would we approve if it wore a Flying B? Yes, of course we would and we would gladly pay much much more to get one. If we then swapped it for a Seiko face, would we still like it? No, we would probably not like it as much, if at all. We would be burdened by Seiko’s position and the cost.

So I think the answer is, if we knew this watch inside out and it seemed as good as a Breitling I think we would still decline the opportunity to buy if it wore a Seiko label. Seems to me that we are influenced by those around us in making decisions and perhaps by the position of the maker. All despite that this could be a first class watch adn worth owning.

I can’t help but notice in the past 20 years a build up to a new 21st Century ideal; that is, before I make an individual decision, what’s does the majority think?

Etodd31856! · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 6:54 am

Forgetting about brand, the issue is "Is a quartz watch worth paying $3K-$5K and can material and workmanship make the watch worth that price?" We have established that a Swiss chronograph with 200-300 parts (or more) put together by master craftsmen with accuracy rates of 99% (or better) and certified by independent rigorous testing are worth the price. I am not a watchmaker, but it IMO a quartz movement is a mass produced item with a programmed chip is not worthy of a low-mid 4 digit price tag (forgetting diamond settings).

Now after discussing the above, what amount does the value of brand bring to the table? No doubt there is a differential between Japanese Brand and Swiss Brand and the latter commands more $. The question is how much? From what I am hearing there are some that will pay the price as long as the flying B is on the item. However, while I like the Aero and Crono after all that has been said, I am not sure the movement under the face justify's a $5K price tag (even for our cherished flying B!). I would rather buy another model for the money. Additionally, I do not think, based on what I have read, that a Japanese quartz is worth $3K or more.

Not sure if the above is redundant or additive to this conversation but if our watchmakers can dial in (no pun indented!) on the first issue the second issue may become more clear (or not!) Regardless, alot of good contributions and thanks again to all for participation.

:lingsrock:

wessa · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 7:47 am

Etodd31856! wrote:

Forgetting about brand, the issue is "Is a quartz watch worth paying $3K-$5K ......
Now after discussing the above, what amount does the value of brand bring to the table? No doubt there is a differential between Japanese Brand and Swiss Brand and the latter commands more $. The question is how much? .......

Rightly or wrongly but I guess you will find the answer to your questions in the first sentence of the post by murphy77 here:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=43567

:shock:

HeadOffice · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 10:14 am

Hang on guys... I have one of the new Astron's GPS Solar and I must say it is definitely worth the money. To watch the hands spin around and sync to the GPS satellites above - including date - is a marvel to see. The technology is amazing that they can get it down that small. Obviously everyone has their personal preferences. But I also have one their high end Spring Drive Chronos (about $6k US) and that movement is amazing. TOTALLY smooth second hand, automatic charging of internal capacitor. Superb build quality.

All in all - I don't buy watches JUST because of their brand - they also have to have something special. The Astron Solar GPS and the Spring Drives do too.

Let's not forget - the "majority" of US consumers don't want automatic watches (according to a number of manufacturers and re-sellers). Officianados may know all about them but the "average" consumer wants something to put on and forget.

Wear what you enjoy...

PS - The spring drive chrono has AWESOME acuracy +- 2sec/month!!

P51 · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 3:30 pm

You are all making judgements that sound reasonable to me, rather than rejecting this watch out of hand, as some would do without exception. Just because it’s a Japanese watch. That’s a missed opportunity and is their loss if they do.

I guess, to get what I mean on this topic, if Etodd31856! Swaps the word Swiss of Japanese in his first paragraph above, then you have a fair Idea of what I believe. We automatically assume (because of conditioning ) that the Japanese are not capable of making a high grade low volume pieces with 99.99% accuracy. But they are, and they do. We just assume that’s not the case, and after all where it the cache in buying a watch from Seiko? The negative way in which some talk about these brands and any other watch from Japan is my case in point. HeadOffice points out that the Spring Drive is superb (which it is) and he is spot on, but most here would avoid any interest in these technical advances, hanging onto key words that pacify our anxiety about the brand we love instead.

As has been said before, I certainly would not pay any more than $500.00 for a Quartz. In MO, they are not worth it. I have never seen a case and dial combination in quartz yet, that would make me part with anything more. Ironically a Breitling 2300 or similar might get my reddies out of my wallet and I would probably pay a lot more for something that is highly unreliable, probably is not in working condition and will need a Myota quartz movement replacement to get it going again. It’s not the quartz that would compel me; it’s the history in this case.

Roffensian · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 4:27 pm

P51 wrote:

You are all making judgements that sound reasonable to me, rather than rejecting this watch out of hand, as some would do without exception. Just because it’s a Japanese watch. That’s a missed opportunity and is their loss if they do.

I guess, to get what I mean on this topic, if Etodd31856! Swaps the word Swiss of Japanese in his first paragraph above, then you have a fair Idea of what I believe. We automatically assume (because of conditioning ) that the Japanese are not capable of making a high grade low volume pieces with 99.99% accuracy. But they are, and they do. We just assume that’s not the case, and after all where it the cache in buying a watch from Seiko? The negative way in which some talk about these brands and any other watch from Japan is my case in point. HeadOffice points out that the Spring Drive is superb (which it is) and he is spot on, but most here would avoid any interest in these technical advances, hanging onto key words that pacify our anxiety about the brand we love instead.

As has been said before, I certainly would not pay any more than $500.00 for a Quartz. In MO, they are not worth it. I have never seen a case and dial combination in quartz yet, that would make me part with anything more. Ironically a Breitling 2300 or similar might get my reddies out of my wallet and I would probably pay a lot more for something that is highly unreliable, probably is not in working condition and will need a Myota quartz movement replacement to get it going again. It’s not the quartz that would compel me; it’s the history in this case.

It being Japanese has absolutely nothing to do with in my mind. The average Japanese watch is far more accurate than the average Swiss watch. I would feel exactly the same about this watch if it had Tissot or Swatch on the dial. Does that make me a brand snob, probably, but no one who has even the smallest knowledge of my collection would think that I am driven by mass marketing, quite the opposite in fact.

Driver8 · **Posted:** Tue May 07, 2013 2:14 am

Roffensian wrote:

It being Japanese has absolutely nothing to do with in my mind.

For me as well it has nothing to do with "Made in Japan" on the dial (or on the caseback) and everything to do with the combination of the quartz inside and the whopping price on the ticket.

Like I said in my earlier post in this thread, I have a few quartz watches in my collection, all of which are Japanese, and all of which are more accomplished (IMO) in terms of functionality than most Swiss quartz models I've seen. Crucially though, they also come with what I consider to be realistic price tags for quartz models, as they're all G-Shocks. Quartz just isn't my area of interest when it comes to expensive watches.

HeadOffice · **Posted:** Tue May 07, 2013 4:04 am

I wonder - the B-1 is a Quartz watch (before SuperQuartz).
Loved by many on this forum and not half as accurate as the Spring Drive(or the Astron GPS).

Wear what you love I say (preferably not the same watch as everyone else has on around you).

That reminds me of going to a business meeting with a group of about 10 Latin American office people and 9 of the 10 all had a Rolex Sub on (I think #10 had a Daytona). I strolled in with my Breitling yellow Emergency with UTC and they just stared.

Driver8 · **Posted:** Tue May 07, 2013 4:47 am

HeadOffice wrote:

Wear what you love I say

Totally agree! :thumbsup:

Oris3 · **Posted:** Thu May 09, 2013 7:19 pm

HeadOffice wrote:

Hang on guys... I have one of the new Astron's GPS Solar and I must say it is definitely worth the money. To watch the hands spin around and sync to the GPS satellites above - including date - is a marvel to see. The technology is amazing that they can get it down that small. Obviously everyone has their personal preferences. But I also have one their high end Spring Drive Chronos (about $6k US) and that movement is amazing. TOTALLY smooth second hand, automatic charging of internal capacitor. Superb build quality.

Totally agree with the above, I love my Astron. Build quality is excellent, the technology in it is pretty exciting. The ease of changing time zones if you travel is great. Auto synch makes sure it's bang on time every day etc. Took me a while to get use to how light it is, but once over that it really is a joy to wear. I paid under $3000aud for mine from a local AD. I've paid more than that for watches that really just have a slightly modified ETA in them. And from the little I know you can pick up an ETA movement for a few hundred dollars so the "real' worth of a watch, unless an in house movement, is the build quality, case, dial, service levels etc. And having looked closely at the astron it's worth the money. Also the astron came with a 3yr warranty unlike breitling 2yr warranty. Sub $3000 doesn't seem all that expensive to me for the technology your are buying. Some one has to pay for the research and development!! In my mind that makes it worth it. My next purchase will probably be a seawolf, and really I'll be paying over $3500 for a slightly modified eta where the base movement probably cost breitling less than $100 (that's a total guess on my part!). So what am I paying for???

RJRJRJ · **Posted:** Thu May 09, 2013 9:06 pm

Im gonna amend my opinion slightly, since a quick google shows that they can actually be had for $1500-2000. Not too bad, I guess.

Funny side note: google also recommended a bunch of "visually similar" watches that cost about $150...

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