The Breitling Watch Source Forums

OK well firstly, you're absolutely right - what people do with their own genuine watches is their own business. Last time I checked, buying and then selling legitimate genuine goods wasn't an offence - criminal or moral. I'm not remotely endorsing grey market dealers at all : I'm simply saying that a while ago they were a good way to make a few extra pounds.

Secondly, I bought them from Interwatches.com and the watches I bought came with fully completed and stamped up Breitling warranties from proper ADs. OK so the warranties were a couple of weeks old when they resold they on to me, but they were unworn so were sold as new. So technically they weren't true grey market pieces - I guess "pre-owned unused" was probably more accurate. For all I know someone probably bought the watches and then for whatever reason traded them to Interwatches in brand new condition.

Thirdly, (and not that it's particularly relevant) this was actually long time ago, before my moderator days here.

And lastly, if Breitling don't actually do anything to combat grey market pieces (other than to allege something along the lines of, "99% of Breitlings on the internet are fake" on the front screen of their website), then it's up to individuals where they buy from. While I personally don't buy grey market for my own collection (as I value the warranty and the relationships with the AD's I use), I don't actually have a problem with people running legitimate businesses. The important thing is that people know what they are buying - i.e. something not backed up by an official warranty if you buy true grey-market. Again this isn't an endorsement in any way - just a personal belief.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

You're right though nothing positive to say usually about them.

All that aside, whether a mod, member, or admin we are all just people, not better or worse than the next guy that visits here (unless they are one of those that post once to see if we can tell if there shitty watch is a fake before they put it on the bay) LOL

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SA-Baton White Dial/ProII
Tissot Le Locle

Well said Driver. Like I said mod or not doesnt really matter to me, people are people. The one thing I dont agree with is the part in red above. Buying from them is supporting them, it just is. Now, lets be honest human beings here for a minute all of our natural human instincts have the one about wanting to make more $. That being said, I cant say I wouldnt have done the same thing. Im not taking sides here, its just good old debating which is a good thing IMHO. Have a great rest of the day everyone!

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SA-Baton White Dial/ProII
Tissot Le Locle

Look, we're talking about grey-market dealers here, not replica/fake selling sites! We need to bear in mind that grey-market dealers actually get their stock direct from ADs anyway. Some ADs pass on their stock to grey market dealers at (or near) cost to keep their stock turning over. Grey-dealers are not illegal and not even morally dubious (provided they are upfront about their product), so it's not a case "supporting" them against the official network IMO. Opinions may vary on this, but hey there we go.

And besides (and I don't really know why I'm even defending it), bear in mind that the ones I bought were more "pre-owned unused" that proper grey-market anyway.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

However you choose to make a few extra pounds/bucks is your decision, like you said it's not the least bit illegal. However, I don't understand your point about pre-owned unused vs proper grey-market......i didn't know there was a proper grey market.

I agree with gzGym...if you buy from a grey-market then you're helping support them, which helps them stay in business, which then drives down the value of our Breitlings even further because their prices are ridiculously cheap...I'm sure that cycle has been discussed at nauseum on here.

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"I don't own any watches, I just lease them"

Great debate guys. I have said my piece! Thanks for the kind debate everyone! Have a great evening!

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SA-Baton White Dial/ProII
Tissot Le Locle

Not true. The gray market exists because Breitling doesnt do anything to combat it. Try to find a gray market dealer selling Rolex or Panerai for 30% off any model you want. Not gonna happen for the simple fact that ADs are shaking in their boots at the thought of getting caught feeding the gray market.

I agree with D8 that the gray market is doing nothing illegal or immoral. They get their watches from legitimate sources, sell them brand new as advertised, and never claim to offer an OEM warranty. For many buyers, it simply makes a ton of sense to jump online and buy "the same watch" at what they believe to be a significant savings. I dont buy gray market, but that doesnt change anything. If Breitling has a problem with them, they need to step up their policing of the dealer network.

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-RJ

"Proper" grey market - No Breitling warranty because the originating AD (or official Breitling wholesaler) wants their identity protected.

Pre-owned/Unused - Has a fully stamped up and completed Breitling warranty because it more than likely came to the dealer from a private individual who sold it on to them in unworn/unused condition very quickly after purchasing it from an approved source. You don't call a private seller who buys a watch and then decides to sell it on within a couple of weeks without wearing it a "grey-market" seller do you?

Hopefully that's more clear now.

By the way, I think you should be blaming the AD's and the official wholesalers who supply the grey-market with the watches in the first place. Or perhaps Breitling themselves for not making more of an effort to close the supply routes. Oh and remember these people supplying the grey market ARE on Breitling's payroll : people who buy from the grey-market aren't - they're just average people looking for the best deal. As you have quite regularly said today on another thread, "we aren't representative of Breitling, we're just people who like the watches", etc etc, and for once I agree with you. It's nobody's job here to protect Breitling's image or their AD network - Breitling are more than capable of looking after themselves in this respect, much like they could choose to stop ADs from offering ANY discount at all if they really wanted too. The watches that grey market dealers sell are real not fakes, so the consumer is not being ripped off in some way, so I don't feel any need to berate people who want to buy from the grey market at all. As I've said time and again, the only things people need to be sure of when buying from a legitimate grey-market dealer is that the serial number is intact, and that the non-Breitling warranty is worth next to nothing.

Oh and mfserge - just in case the Breitling LE doesn't happen for some reason and you suddenly feel the need to blame it on my admission of buying a couple of non-AD watches a few years ago - can I just draw your attention to the official BreitlingSource sponsor banner in the top right hand corner of this page - PrestigeTime.com. They're a very good and trustworthy grey-market dealer that Admin has dealt with for a number of years. I guess even Admin himself falls below "the required standard" at times, huh?!

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Driver8

Site Moderator

Why would I need to blame anyone? I'm re-reading my posts to see where I spoke so badly about Grey-Market?? Once again, you guys jump all over me because I disagree with you.




When did I berate you or anyone else for buying grey market? Still trying ot figure that one out.



Why would I blame you...or anyone for that matter?? If it happens it happens, if it doesn't then it doesn't. I won't lose sleep over it nor blame anyone for it; that's ridiclious to even say.

Until this becomes the 'official breitling source' the admin should be free to accept advertising funds from anyone he wishes, grey market, black market, red market, who cares?? Gotta pay the bills somehow.

It has become apparently clear to me that one cannot be in disagreement with a moderator on this site.

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"I don't own any watches, I just lease them"

I don't want to get into a "you started it first" kind of debate here, so OK, I give up. Moving on.......

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Driver8

Site Moderator

What does that mean? You haven't been banned or anything at all. The moderator doesn't agree with you, and you don't agree with him. You haven't been fined. You guys are duking it out in the open forum. You threw down first.

You're making it sound like he did something to you, like you're some sort of victim.

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BreitlingSource Admin
http://www.breitlingsource.com - http://blog.breitlingsource.com

My first experience with buying a Breitling came with trying to make a purchase from a gray market dealer. I placed an order with AuthenticWatches.com for my Chrono Evolution for the obvious reason of the price advantage and no tax. However once I discovered that certain AD's will give you a discount that works out to the same price as a Grey market dealer, I called to cancel my order. When AuthenticWatches.com customer service answered and I told them I wanted to cancel my order, they hung up on me at least 3 times before I was able to officially cancel my order. The had me on the phone trying to convince me otherwise and threatened to charge me a percentage of the price of the watch. I had to contact my bank before they tried to withdraw money. Very shady and not worth going the gray market route especially when there are AD's that can match the gray market price.

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AP-15400
Steelfish-Silver Dial
Panerai 312
Rolex DateJust II Blue Stick Dial

I berate people for buying grey market... Have I? Really have i? Because I certainly didn't type that anywhere. Let's stick to facts when debating and not put words in people's mouths. And don't forget, a year from now when we don't get our LE I'm going to blame driver... He has a crystal ball I guess?

Victim? Hardly!! I'm fortunate enough to own a few nice watches and chat about it online with others who enjoy them....I just have to make sure I'm in agreeance with the powers at be otherwise an explosion of nonsense happens.

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"I don't own any watches, I just lease them"

I do doubt that Breitling SA gets as lathered up about the grey market as some assume. The gray market exists because ADs make presumably rational business decisions to dump inventory at or near cost.

If Breitling SA wanted to, it could mostly quash the market by cutting off supply. Alter the contracts with the distributors to require the contracts with the ADs to regularly report inventory by serial # and sales by serial #, date of purchase, and name of purchaser. Mandate the distributors report periodically to Breitling SA with the stats. Every watch made would be in a central data bank at least up to purchase from the AD, and by name and date. Easy enough to manipulate the data for unusual # of sales in a short time period. It would place a burden on some AD bean counters, not much at all on Breitling SA. BUSA does this to some extent but the warranty registration card is optional.

In the end the gray market helps to sell more watches which allows Breitling SA to sell more watches form it's inventory which allows them to make more watches. All the righteous corporate indignation in the world can't change the calculus - "follow the money!"

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SHARKMAN

totally agree with you sharkman. i think secretly Breitling benefits from the fact that the grey market is there to unload inventory to. they still sell to their AD's at a fixed price and its up to the AD to move their inventory. more watches in Grey market means more lings being made that simple.