The Breitling Watch Source Forums

I am going to buck the trend a bit here. While my personal taste in watches leans to the complicated with big shiny dials and flash, I think that the best start here is toward a more elegant dress watch.
Reasons:
1. That allows you to perfect a starting point. Dress watches tend to have few complications. Tend to be understated and of superior quality. As you try to build a reputation in this field superior quality will get you the best foot hold.
2. Simple elegant dress watches have very wide appeal. Even a non-WIS appreciates the look of a fine dress watch, and often on appearance alone will comment on the "nice watch" in my experience.
3. That high quality, uncomplicated, dress watch with wider appeal can function as either a base platform for other watches, other versions, or additional complications as your market segment develops.

Now all that being said, I have always told you, Roff, when you first started posting about learning watchmaking that I was in for the first one you produce and I meant it. Whatever you decide I will jump on. If you want this to be a commercial venture then I think it needs to be looked at that way primarily and then let your tastes etc.. mold the specifics from there. You know how to run a business (shit, you teach others how!) but if you let your tastes be the primary mold of style you may wind up with something fascinating that is only appealing to you and 10 other people.

I will watch with great interest!
The Old Bone-o-matic

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Chronomat, Steel/Gold, MOP Dial, 2-tone band (2008)
Super Avenger Black Baton Dial (2009)
Bentley B04 GMT Silver Dial (2013)
Avenger Blacksteel Baton Dial (2014)

That's also true. One thing that I am looking for at the moment is a really nice gold dress watch (on a strap) that doesn't cost a gazillion dollars. The markup for merely having a gold case is astonishing for most brands. I want a central seconds hand, an interesting-to-look-at movement in a display back, and at least 40mm. Obviously the movement doesn't have to be complicated...just nice looking.

No, I don't expect this to be your first one, but just sayin' what I want. (Maybe your second model???)

///M

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." --Dave Barry

Wow, this is public a little sooner than I expected!

My thoughts on your questions are -


I would probably concentrate on a fairly small run for the first watch. That way you (hopefully) won't spend years trying to shift them all, and also a small run number woudl appeal to many enthusiasts. Doxa for example have taken well over 2 years to shift all of their SUB600T-Graph, and that was a run of 250 pieces from a well established brand. Personally I wouldn't want to be tied to still potentially having to produce the same watch for 5 or 10 years if you committed to a higher number. Obviously you wouldn't have to actually make all of them, but if you didn't you effectively lost the opportunity to market it as a smaller LE run.


Difficult one. A sports/diving model would probably prove more popular, but then again the market is swamped with them, and to compete with many of the boutique brands you'd need to offer something special (like 1000m WR or something) which adds a layer of technical complexity to the design and construction. Dress watches have a fairly limited appeal, and it's difficult to stand out from teh crowd. The differentiating factor on dress watches tends to be the movement, so you'd need soemthing special inside to stand out. Personally I'd be tempted to go with something totally original and avant garde, and just hope it finds a market. An example in my mind would be the Corum Bubble : very unique and certainly not loved by everyone but they still seemed to have no trouble selling them. (I'm not saying you should copy the Bubble at all, but it's a good example of original thinking IMO).


I don't think anyone would complain about a display back.... although that would mean you'd have to have the movement suitably decorated.


Difficult one again! Personally I'd pitch between the $500 and $1500 mark to start with. That's a cut above the real cheapies, but low enough for people to seriously consider "taking a chance on".


Depends on your target market and the type of watch. A manual wind diver probably would't be overly great considering the screw-in crown aspect. Automatics probably have a wider appeal, unless you decided to make a big thing of a display back with a great looking manual wind inside like the Cosmo DB.


I have no real preference on this, although again it's at least partially dependent on the model. A chrono movement wouldn't sit too well as a dress watch for example.

Great idea all round, and I hope you actually get to do it Roff!

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Driver8

Site Moderator

Yeah, me too. Combination of a tough market for management consulting and an itch that needs scratching.

Thanks for all the comments everyone - keep them coming.

i agree with what people are saying but i didn't understand the remark of how there are too many divers watches out there. Almost every design house has simple designs as well. I know that most people nowadays are looking for big watches, maybe it doesn't have to be a diver, maybe your own unique case design, Bell and Ross did it. i know that whatever you choose it will look great, i just hope that it is something different and unique that many watch owners will turn to to diversify their collections.

Dive watches seem to be some of the ones that generate the most online buzz, as the online dive watch crowd is a passionate one. This could be good or bad I suppose.

I personally like the idea of a bigger sized Dress Watch, possibly vintage. I love the look of vintage watches, but like the size and reliability of modern watches.... so having them together in one is a cool concept.

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http://www.breitlingsource.com - http://blog.breitlingsource.com

Put my vote down for a dress type watch. Personally I feel that there are a ton of divers on the market and almost as many aviation themed. A moderately priced dress watch would appeal to many watch enthusiasts that arent buying for name brand only. And most watch collectors already have several of divers and aviator styled watches. A initial run of less than 25 would help with the liquidation of the model.

With that said I would like to see a dress watch with the following:

White Porcelain dial
Breguet style hands w/ a distinct seconds hand
Date would be really nice
24mm lugs
no bigger than a 42mm case
Display back
Hand engraved LE numbering and/or brand name on the movement / caseback.
Find a way to keep the $$$ under $600-800 USD
yellow gold plated or maybe highly polished brass!!

mmmmm... sounds awesome, huh?

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Breitling Steelfish(black)
Breitling Steelfish(silver)
Panerai PAM 312
Bell & Ross BR03-92 Phantom
Steinhart BreitlingSource LE #5/15

42mm case and 24mm lugs will look odd imo lug size and case size need to be linked hence most 42mm whatches have 22mm lugs

Depending on the case/lug design, I dont think 2mm will look that bad, but thats just me. But having said that I wouldnt discount a design because of a 22mm lug. I offered the 24mm sugestion becuase there seems to be a plethora of 24mm aftermarket straps out there and not as many 22mm.

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Breitling Steelfish(black)
Breitling Steelfish(silver)
Panerai PAM 312
Bell & Ross BR03-92 Phantom
Steinhart BreitlingSource LE #5/15

I didn't want to buck the trend too early, but since BoneDoc broke the ice, here goes!

Driver8's comment on price is spot on. The 500 - 1500 USD price range is a perfect level to help differentiate yourself from the "others" while leaving it affordable. I'd be willing to risk this amount on a relatively unknown entity so long as the watch is attractive and/or interesting.

With this price point in mind, I think it would be wiser to opt for a less complicated design and invest in higher end materials, machining, and movement decoration. This, in my mind, is a manual wind dress watch with a display back, and perhaps with a vintage flair.

I think that, at this price, a more complicated watch design (i.e. diver, automatic, chrono) might make you compromise on quality.

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“The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.” - Albert Einstein

Ur prob right mate

Firstly a great idea Roff, please sign me up for one now

My thoughts:

For a first run I would settle for an LE of as low as 50. I don’t think you’ll struggle selling that many and it will be a good way to test the water.

I also like a lot of the above comments regarding designing a dress watch. It’s original and personally something I’d really be interested in acquiring. It would also stand out against the usual divers or aviation options you see on the market. If you were to focus on a diver or aviation watch I would like to see something different via case or dial to differentiate.

One standard feature for me would be a date. I’m so used to looking at one now that I miss it say on my Steinhart.

My opinion on target cost would be up to $1,500 for a first run. I have no issue paying for quality but personally anything over say $2,000 is money I could put elsewhere.

Either automatic or manual; non-DB if the movement is undecorated and for a dress watch, time only please (with date).

The sooner the better I say Good luck!

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Happines is Good Health and a Bad Memory.
"Ingrid Bergman"

New forum member here. Personally like pilot style designs (haven't found the perfec one yet) but also like "dressier" styles. Preferred features for dressier:
auto, 42-43mm, simple chrono - 30 min sub, sm. sec. sub., big date, white-ish dial w/blued
hands ?
I think a cost target of 500-1500 US$ is good.
Must be an infinite # combinations and possibilities - very difficult to narrow down. Easier to see what one doesn't like,lol.
Great idea, keep investigating options/opinions! Good luck! I'll stay tuned.

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Chrono Jetstream
Montbrilliant 1903
Aerospace E79362

Go for it.

I think some of the discussion concerning categorisation based on style – ie, divers/dress/etc. – is premature.

Ultimately it has to be something really cool and different - otherwise there is no point. And that means taking a step back, and spending time thinking about the aesthetics – what do you want this thing to look like? Then you need to start being realistic with the design/manufacturing cost equation.

It will need a good quality but relatively cheap Swiss movement – that’s a no brainer. The question really is case shape, how can it be machined?

Presumably you have a translatable CAD package that can take a design and feed it into a modern milling machine & lathe? If you want some inspiration, I recommend doing some research into modern machining methods. Hell, take the shortcut, find a cool mechanical engineering dude at a nearby university and ask him: “You’ve been making stuff with this gear for years, if you had to make an interesting case for a watch, how do you reckon you’d do it?”

You should also consider materials – perhaps unique index markers? Chunky blued or Damascus steel? Think about cheap generic but interesting fasteners for strap options.

But first, please focus on design – spend some time on CAD, get an idea of what’s feasible, and have some fun creating!

It is so elementary, but it seems to be forgotten in this discussion – what do you want this thing to look like? And then, can you make it? For under a grand, those questions may be a tight feedback loop - but unless you approach it that way, I doubt it will be something which stands out in an already impressive crowd.

I wouldn't say there are too many divers out there per se : it's just that IMO there are a lot of them about, and they often seem to be the models that most small boutique firms go for first purely because they are a very popular and practical syle of watch.

I have no empirical evidence for this, but I bet that more divers watches are sold per year than, say, something like ultra-thin dress watches, or the more avant garde designs. For example, I'm pretty sure more Rolex-look-a-like divers on the market compared to Corum Bubble-look-a-likes. (In fact, I don't know of ANY Corum Bubble-look-a-likes, which is kind of my point! )

I guess it depends on why Roff wants to do this. If he wants to start a commercial business trying to generate a decent income, then "playing it safe" and going for a diver (or pilot) design would open up an existing customer base....., albeit in a very crowded market place. However, if Roff's motivation is less about the initial income and more to do with the love of just doing it, then something more unique is the way to go IMHO. The latter way is probably a route to less sales initially but probably more satisfaction, and ultimately it could lead to a unique brand image, which could result in far greater income once "Roff Watches" takes off!

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Driver8

Site Moderator