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Cadette
https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=60277		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  vintage [ Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:28 am ]
Post subject:  Cadette
Nicely redone dial but on further investigation......not so good.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BREITLING-CADETTE-Chronograph-18K-GOLD-CASE-FOR-CHRONO-COLLECTORS-/231910259622?hash=item35feedbba6:g:HdoAAOSwq19XC4zW
Author:  WatchFred [ Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cadette
let's call it a "nicely faked" dial ?
Author:  vintage [ Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cadette
WatchFred wrote:
let's call it a "nicely faked" dial ?


Agree. I sent the seller an email enlightening him about the watch. No response.
Author:  WatchFred [ Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cadette
but it was his uncle's watch !
creative; normally it's Grandpa.
Author:  mystro [ Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cadette
vintage wrote:
Nicely redone dial but on further investigation......not so good.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BREITLING-CADETTE-Chronograph-18K-GOLD-CASE-FOR-CHRONO-COLLECTORS-/231910259622?hash=item35feedbba6:g:HdoAAOSwq19XC4zW


For a newbie and even experienced members.. your comment really doesn't help since you never mention what is wrong or your opinion of whats wrong..are you assuming everyone would catch what your seeing? ..

..I hope this forum hasn't de-graduated into not explaining what they think warrants attention by assuming *all members are super educated on vintage Breitlings..we are not. sorry

btw..if I can't find a duplicate face/case on breitling-museum listing does this assume it's fake?

Oops..seems breitling-museum is not considered fully legit by some?
Author:  Joseph85282 [ Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cadette
As a newbie, I am going to give this a shot. Here are the problems I see:

Case:
-Breitling did not use double case backs;
-Markings are wrong (no serial number stamped on it, and "390" is not a valid reference number);
-The leather strap is marked "20". Not impossible that a Breitling of this vintage would have 20mm lugs, but very rare (I think the ref. 179 is the only Breitling with a Venus 170 movement and 20mm lugs);
-I doubt Breitling made solid gold case back covers on chronographs with base metal cases/rear bezels.

Dial:
To his credit, it is certainly "professionally refinished" as advertised. However, here are a few issues if you want to nitpick:
-The markings and writing are not as sharp as I would expect on an original;
-The blue tachymeter appears a little sloppy (ie: the spacing of the zeros in "1000" & the line spacing between "65" and "60");
-The large hour number "2" looks a little odd/disproportional.

I imagine there are other tell-tale signs that I am missing, but these issues would be enough for me to pass on it. Also, why does it say "please contact before any purchase"? Seems suspicious, perhaps even a violation. To me, this looks like an all-around nice looking sympathetic restore job to an entry-level vintage chronograph. But not a Breilting.
Author:  WatchFred [ Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cadette
@Joseph85282; newbie or not; you've summed up the issues perfectly !

- all authentic Breitling with the Venus 170 carry a three digit model ref.; leading 17
- all authentic Breitling (at least from the early 1930s onwards) carry serial numbers; 6-digit until late 1964, 7 digits later,
(half a handful of exceptions w/ a small batch of ref. 1765 and some dive watches in the mid 1960s).
- any correct Breitling w/ the Venus 170 caliber should have serial numbers in the range from approximately 4xx.xxx to 8xx.xxx to cover the production period of that caliber.

no, Breitling never used the paperthin cheap 18k "Tourist Chronograph" cases.

@mystro: "breitling-museum" is anything but; the "selection criteria are that the site owner "likes some watches posted for sale on ebay".
he's far from having a good eye; so 80% and more are fakes. "not fully legit" doesn't come close to what it is considered.

let me add that a short "could you please explain why" might have been more in place than that "I hope this forum hasn't de-graduated...."; not the way people normally ask for advice and information ?
Author:  mystro [ Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cadette
Joseph85282, I quoted your excellent post below--thanks for being so helpful with an excellent walkthru..you seem well informed and observant for a *newbie, methinks your only a newbie to the forum not Breitlings--looking forward to future observations.

Joseph85282 wrote:
As a newbie, I am going to give this a shot. Here are the problems I see:

Case:
-Breitling did not use double case backs;
-Markings are wrong (no serial number stamped on it, and "390" is not a valid reference number);
-The leather strap is marked "20". Not impossible that a Breitling of this vintage would have 20mm lugs, but very rare (I think the ref. 179 is the only Breitling with a Venus 170 movement and 20mm lugs);
-I doubt Breitling made solid gold case back covers on chronographs with base metal cases/rear bezels.

Dial:
To his credit, it is certainly "professionally refinished" as advertised. However, here are a few issues if you want to nitpick:
-The markings and writing are not as sharp as I would expect on an original;
-The blue tachymeter appears a little sloppy (ie: the spacing of the zeros in "1000" & the line spacing between "65" and "60");
-The large hour number "2" looks a little odd/disproportional.

I imagine there are other tell-tale signs that I am missing, but these issues would be enough for me to pass on it. Also, why does it say "please contact before any purchase"? Seems suspicious, perhaps even a violation. To me, this looks like an all-around nice looking sympathetic restore job to an entry-level vintage chronograph. But not a Breilting.
Author:  mystro [ Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cadette
WatchFred wrote:
let me add that a short "could you please explain why" might have been more in place than that "I hope this forum hasn't de-graduated...."; not the way people normally ask for advice and information ?


Thanks Fred..I agree :)
Author:  Joseph85282 [ Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cadette
Mystro, 2 months ago I would not have known a Breitling from a hole in the ground. My small knowledge base is 100% attributable to this fine forum and its extensive archives. I also ordered a few used books with great photos. But beware, the books have mistakes. They are not gospel just very good references. If you are interested, here are the books I ordered (check abebooks.com or amazon.com). I listed them in the order of helpfulness to me:

1. Breitling: The History of a Great Brand of Watches 1884 to the Present (Schiffer Book for Collectors) (Richter, 2007)
2. Breitling Highlights (English and German Edition) (Mutzlitz, 2010)
3. Breitling: The Book (Genoud, 2009)

You will see people reference the first book frequently on this forum (referred to simply as "Richter"). If you only get one book, that's the one. Admittedly, for now at least, my interest in Breitlings is pretty much limited to 1940's chronographs, particularly the ref. 170 series (models with caliber Venus 170 movements). So this thread was right in my very limited wheelhouse. :D

Good luck!

BTW, take a look at this one. Appears eerily similar to the subject of this thread, especially the "metal" stamp on the rear bezel: http://www.ebay.com/itm/272206569210?_t ... .S1.R1.TR1
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