Dear Breitling lovers
This is my 1st post on the forum. I am new to "vintage" watches and will need all the help and expertise to spot if this is indeed an authentic, fake or fraken 1940's Breitling.
Many thanks for your help!
Mania
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| Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=57525 |
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| Author: | Mania [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
Dear Breitling lovers This is my 1st post on the forum. I am new to "vintage" watches and will need all the help and expertise to spot if this is indeed an authentic, fake or fraken 1940's Breitling. Many thanks for your help! Mania
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
strange one. ref. 1781 is not a documented reference number, BUT there is a similar ref. 1782 in a 1960s catalog by Uhren Trautmann, the Breitling distributor for Germany. This is a similar watch that we have never seen "in the metal", so quite possible a ref. 1781 did exist. dial and hands are similar to the early 1960s refs. 119x, so clearly NOT an untouched watch from the 1940s, as the serial number would indicate, we do see transitional periods, but 1947 to 1960 ..... on the fence, as I always am when such a singular piece pops up, but parts (including the 1950s style signature on the V188 bridge) seem correct, dial and hands are clearly original. interesting. |
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| Author: | Mania [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
Hi Fred, Thanks for the quick reply.  According to my research, this serial # is from 1948... Am I right? So if ref. 1781 doesn't exist in Breitling catalog, it has to be a fake .... i think. How about the movement? Is it normal to have "Breitling" on bridge for a 1948 model....or if this is transitional, will this make it more valuable? Is this a Valjoux or a Venus movement? I'm tempted to buy, but with so many replicas these days....its hard to make a clever decision...hmmmm  Mania 
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| Author: | Mania [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
I uploaded the page of Breitling catalog from the 60's, and ref.1782 doesn't look much like the watch I wanted to buy (ref.1781) .... To Buy or NOT to Buy that is the question....hummmm  Link to ref.1782 : http://jpegbay.com/gallery/004315404-.html#1 Mania
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| Author: | Mania [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
Hi Fred, I noticed someone else posted last month something about a ref.1781 too : viewtopic.php?f=31&t=57247 Can this be the same watch ? Maybe he is the one trying to sell me this "fraken" ?!? ..... Strange...very very strange...  BUY ? NOT BUY ? Mania
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
can't tell you. that listing then reminded me of that ref. 1782 in the Trautmann catalog so went back to verify but the pics were gone. clearly the same watch, I think. |
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| Author: | vintage [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
Serial number dates it to 1947 and I think too early for a Venus 188 in a Breitling. |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
Paul, here is the 1960s Trautmann catalog showing the 1782, never saw one in pictures or irl, dod you ? 
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| Author: | buddman [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
Fred - have you ever seen a Top Time logo like that? 
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| Author: | vintage [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
Haven't seen the 1782 before either Fred. What do you think the chances are this is another example of Breitling using old cases from the 1940's again? We've seen it a few times with some of the 1950's chronographs but not with the 1960's. If you look at the OP's link the dial is too late a design for the 1940's and the back has the Breitling logo (lightly) used on the 1960's watches also. Looking through some of my old price guide books I see many very close examples with the reference numbers of 780, 781, 782, If you look at the reference number on the OP's link the first one does look a little misaligned like maybe it was added later on. So, was it a 781 repurposed as a 1781 and the original Venus 175 substituted with a later Venus 188? Boggles the mind and we'll probably never know. 
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| Author: | Mania [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
Thanks guys for all the help and precious advice. I think with so many "unsolved mystery " on this watch, it will be wiser for me NOT to buy  Mania
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
yes, Paul; dial and hands are clearly early 1960s - mystery piece, but could well be authentic. @Mania: really depends on the price; nice watch, but lingering doubts because of the discussed; whatever you choose to do with that 
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| Author: | Mania [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
The seller asked for 800$, but will most likely sell for less...maybe 500$. Would you buy at that price if the watch was offered to you? Cheers! Mania
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| Author: | Mania [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
All the readings and research confused me even more LOL.... Its so hard to get into watch collection these days with so many franken....  Mania
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Authentic, Fake or Fraken ? Please help... |
at 500 I might be tempted. |
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