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Ebay vintage?
https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=46433		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Neilwar [ Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:03 am ]
Post subject:  Ebay vintage?
Any idea what model this is? Or is it fake?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-breit ... true&rt=nc
Author:  Roffensian [ Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
Can't tell much from those photos. The Breitling on the caseback looks to have been added later, but would need to see better photos to be able to say much more. Given that the dial photo - albeit from a distance is in focus, and the others are horribly out of focus I would draw my own conclusions.
Author:  WatchFred [ Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
similar to the 11xx Cadette line, but no ref. no. and no serial no. visible, even out of focus.
Fake for me.
Author:  Neilwar [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
Image
is the pic I have taken of the back.
Have I been taken for a mug?
Author:  WatchFred [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
afraid so.
missing ref. no, not a Breitling.

but you should be able to file a "not as described" case, movement is not a crownwheel Venus 175, but a lever Venus 188, considered inferior.
Author:  Neilwar [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
Thanks for the reply. The seller said he would refund if it was not genuine. I have lodged a case with paypal, I don't think the seller is a conman - but then I bought this watch which just shows that I really can be quite gullible. I do feel really stupid now.
Author:  WatchFred [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
do not feel bad about it, we see dozens of worse "vintage Breitling" offered and sold every week; seller might have made a honest mistake here - still worth to cancel the transaction.
Author:  Neilwar [ Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
The seller seems genuine and has come back with the following:
Quote:
I have looked at the reference. Can you please tell me who it is that has advised you? He could be anyone for all I know!
It appears that he has based his conclusion on the absence of a serial number?
The fuzzy pictures are nothing to with the authenticity of the watch!
Does the absence of a genuine back make the entire watch a "fake". I simply raise the question?
It appears to be a breitling movement ? Venus 188 not 175 as I have guessed but I did preface that description in the listing?
My understanding is that not all old breitlings had serial numbers?
If you let me have this person's qualification it would assist.
I am not saying that he is not qualified only that I need to be satisfied.
My watchmaker in Preston (Mr Hackler) had no reason to suggest it was a fake when has serviced it, also Sydney Vintage Watches had a look it and thought it was fine too. In fact they would have bought it off when I was there earlier this year but only declined because of the wear to the case.
Rest assured I am not trying to rip you off/
I am a practising barrister in the field of commercial/chancery law in Manchester and will refund (or re-negotiate if you choose) if it is fake!


His reply seems very reasonable. How can I be certain one way or the other?

Thanks for your help.
Author:  Roffensian [ Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
That doesn't sound particularly reasonable to me.

The watch is a not very good fake. The collective knowledge of this community is there for anyone to see in the multiple threads and no one knows more than some of the experts here, of which Fred is the very best.
Author:  WatchFred [ Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
far from reasonable.

a) ALL Breitling watches from the 1930s to the last documented watches in 1978 carry a 6- or 7-digit serial number on the caseback (sometimes inside, sometimes outside; two Dive watch models from the 1960s have only 5-digit serial numbers), for the years 1944 to 1978 we have a documented number range which can be accessed here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31437

b) ALL Breitling watches from the 1940s to the last documented watches in 1978 carry a model reference number (3- or 4-digits) - with one notable exception, the first AOPA Navitimers did not carry the 806 reference for a very short period, but a Navitimer it isn't.

c) The movement is neither a "Breitling movement" (it is a Venus SA caliber, used by many other manufacturers), nor is it the "by seller's research" claimed Venus 175, but a much cheaper Venus 188.

There is no doubt for me this watch is a fake; if a watchmaker claims otherwise, I would be happy to hear what evidence he is basing this on - but again, the Venus 188 instead of the claimed Venus 175 alone should suffice for a "not as described" case.
Author:  vintage [ Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
You can quickly tell if these are fake by the size of the Breitling script on the dial. Often it's either too large, as in this case, or too small. Once you see this you can start looking for more clues something is wrong.
Author:  Neilwar [ Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
First things first, thank you all for your help. It is certainly appreciated.

I'm not sure if I offended anyone, if I did I certainly didn't meant to and please accept my apologies if I did.

When I said he is reasonable I was looking at it from his point of view. If he is genuine ( which I still believe he is) then he has just sold what he believes to be a genuine breitling to someone who he doesn't know from Adam who is telling him that its fake based on the advise of people who I don't know.

While I know that you are probably some of the best experts on Breitlings in the world and I am very greatful for your help, if he is not used to the Internet, to him you are just a bunch of strangers.

If you had just sold something you genuinely believed to be valuable to a perfect stranger and didn't know that real experts are willing to help perfect strangers on the Internet wouldn't you be skeptical?

Explaining to people that are not used to the Internet that you can get advise from world experts, free of charge just by asking , is quite difficult.

Even I find it quite stunning and I think nothing of helping others on forums on my specialist subjects.

Gentlemen, I know you are right and I thank you. I believe the seller is genuine - I hope this is not another example of me being gullible.

I will reply again to let you know the outcome (if anyone is interested) hopefully to say I have got my money back, but maybe to admit my stupidity.

Maybe one day I will actually get a genuine breitling and be back as a proper member rather than just a leach.

Thank you again for all your help. It is appreciated.
Author:  Roffensian [ Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
The best con men in the world are the ones who make you think that they are genuinely nice guys!

I'm sure that no one here is offended but we do want to ensure that you don't get ripped off - regardless of how nice the guy doing the ripping is.
Author:  Neilwar [ Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
You are, of course, right. I am ever the optimist and still believe I might get my money back.

I should have visited here first!

Is it possible to get a Breitling for under £500?
Author:  Roffensian [ Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ebay vintage?
Neilwar wrote:

Is it possible to get a Breitling for under £500?


Certainly. Some very nice 3 hand models from the 50s for well under that price - often cheaper than the Chinese fakes. Just post here before buying :lol:
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