The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Came across this one on the Bay, seller claims is a V72C but the movement looks like a Venus to me? Also is it a redial?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-BREITLI ... 2ec30b864c

it is a Venus 191, San; but correct for the 785, seller just does not know more.

Definitely not a Venus. You guys are forgetting that the spacing from the top pusher to the crown and bottom pusher to the crown is not the same on the Valjoux 72 variations. They are equal on the Venus. This watch appears to have the Valjoux spacing. In my movement book this looks almost exactly like a Valjoux VZ but the VZ is a two register movement. I'm pretty sure it's a Valjoux movement but certainly not a 72C.

There's an hour variant of the VZ.

That family (likely forerunners of the 23 / 72 families) is:

VZ - 2 register
VZC - 2 register calendar
VZH - 3 register (H = hour)
VZHC - 3 register calendar

Looks like a VZHC to me.

right you are, Roff; back at a normal PC display now, VZHC.

Roff, so is the VZHC a movement that was on the 785 at some point or is this all wrong?

San, Valjoux VZHC and 72C are basically the same movement, just the coupling clutch is different, which threw me off .
no exact dates available, but VZHC (and VZC instead of the 23C on the 784) were used until approx. 1945, in line w/ the production date of this watch.

Thanks Fred. Also wasn't Geneve written on the dial much later than 1945? These should also have stick hands in 1945? Also no Datora written on the dial no double chapter ring at the 6 O Clock counter.

yes, San. "Geneve" is 1952 and later, dial is not the original dial, no doubt.

actually quite funny I misinterpreted it (should not try to evaluate a movement on a 4" screen),
as I was writing about VZ-based calibers some days ago on another forum, after reseraching
the history a bit, might be interesting here too.

"... many of the triple date chronographs were based on variations of the 13 ligne Valjoux VZ,
launched as a single pusher in 1916, adapted to dual pusher in the 30s.

There was a VZ"C" for calendar, later the 23C, a VZ"H"C with a 12 Hour counter, later the 72C,
in the end the 730 with 21.6k beats. VZ became the V23, VZH the rather well known V72, to round
it up there was the V88 with moonphase and the 720 flyback. These movements landed in many
of the most desirable watches u can imagine.

PP, AP, Vacheron were among the early adopters when the caliber was launched, still under the original
company name of Raymond Freres.

PP based a lot of it's chronographs on the VZ* ebauche; on an interesting side note both PP and
Audemars also used the basic caliber without the chrono complication, AP had three variants,
VZAS (time only, seconds at 9), VZAS(seconds at 6) and VZSSc (savonette, center seconds) ...."

Sorry, I am new here, but as I Know, the reference 785 used only the Valjoux calibre VZHC til march 1945 and the Valjouc 72C from avril 1945 to begin of 1951.
Only the reference 785D used the Venus 191 from 1951 to 1952.

well, not really; the early 40s catalog shows the Venus 191 as the movement in the 785.

the first Venus 191 where used in 1951, and only until the beginning of 1952, and only in the 785D, never in the 785, so they are much rarer then the Valjoux 72 Datoras 785. This 2 calibers were not used at the same time.

Michael ?

German IP addresses so maybe.

For the record, I consider every last thing that DatoComapx has stated in his posts to be inaccurate (another similarity with our multi-banned friend).