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| All original 1955 pre 806? https://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=43087 |
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| Author: | cruvon [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | All original 1955 pre 806? |
Shouldn't AOPA be written in the wings logo and have silvered or rusty hands instead of black ones? Also does the dial look relumed? The movement looks like a correct V72 though. http://www.ebay.com/itm/OUTSTANDING-VIN ... 0804351228 |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
Bill Shaine is not known for excellent photography, but I'm afraid this dial is not only relumed, but refinished ? iirc he made a reference to the "perfect dial" in his initial description, this has now disappeared; do not think hands are original ? Kurt, Roff, Rene ? |
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| Author: | cruvon [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
WatchFred wrote: Bill Shaine is not known for excellent photography, but I'm afraid this dial is not only relumed, but refinished ? iirc he made a reference to the "perfect dial" in his initial description, this has now disappeared; do not think hands are original ? Kurt, Roff, Rene ? True Fred. Any idea if the dials from later Venus 806's are interchangeable? If so then maybe a later version relumed dial could have been used or it could be a refinished dial as you stated. I know the hands from Venus 806's are not interchangeable with the Valjoux watches. Looks like a clear relume though and the rest of the indices look blackish. |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
dials are not interchangeable, San. The dial does carry the "shrugging wings" (copyright Rene the absent Dragon) of the early AOPA logo. |
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| Author: | cruvon [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
WatchFred wrote: dials are not interchangeable, San. The dial does carry the "shrugging wings" (copyright Rene the absent Dragon) of the early AOPA logo. Thanks Fred. I think I will go with your dial refinished observation because looking at the print of the numbers on the subdials in pic above, they are not perfect too. Here's mine for comparison. 
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
here's the comparison, refinished. 
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| Author: | cruvon [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
WatchFred wrote: here's the comparison, refinished. nice job Fred!:) |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
I've always said that Bill's descriptions are honest, but that you can tell what's really going on by what he doesn't mention, and here he is very careful about what is omitted from the description. Additionally his point about not artificially lightening the dial shots makes it clear that it looks like the lume is brand new (because it is). A little disappointing from Bill, not his usual standard. |
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| Author: | cruvon [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
Roffensian wrote: I've always said that Bill's descriptions are honest, but that you can tell what's really going on by what he doesn't mention, and here he is very careful about what is omitted from the description. Additionally his point about not artificially lightening the dial shots makes it clear that it looks like the lume is brand new (because it is). A little disappointing from Bill, not his usual standard. Considering that the value of that watch which runs into the thousands can be 100% or 20% to a collector depending on the authenticity of the dial(it already has 23 bids from innocent grail hunters with 4 days to go), which makes up a huge part of it's value, not explicitly mentioning those critical details in my book is deception. Everyday non expert collectors place some degree of trust in these so called vintage experts cum sellers and if this is the standard of disclosure they resort to, is not good for the game. Down in vintage Rolex world, reputed sellers not mentioning even slight condition issues like one bad hash mark or a small mark on the dial is considered unethical, not explicitly mentioning something like this would mean a loss of reputation and blacklisting. Don't see why those high standards shouldn't be practiced by vintage Breitling sellers claiming to be experts too having handled and sold 100s of Breitlings. And this is not the first time he did it, last time he was selling a vintage Wakmann triple date as a Wakmann Breitling Datora supposedly manufactured by Breitling. Very disappointing! |
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| Author: | vintage [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
Just wondering on these Valjoux 72 Navitimers, supposedly the pushers aren't mounted an equal distance from the crown. One is a little further away than the other. Not having ever had one in my hands, is that an optical illusion or a known fact? If that's true why don't other brands using the Valjoux 72 seem to have the same pusher configuration? Seems to me if the movement required different pusher spacing then everyone would have to accomodate that in their case design. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
vintage wrote: Just wondering on these Valjoux 72 Navitimers, supposedly the pushers aren't mounted an equal distance from the crown. One is a little further away than the other. Not having ever had one in my hands, is that an optical illusion or a known fact? If that's true why don't other brands using the Valjoux 72 seem to have the same pusher configuration? Seems to me if the movement required different pusher spacing then everyone would have to accomodate that in their case design. Have never studied it, and haven't handled a 72 movement in a while so don't recall the movement design specifically, but Kurt identified the 2 o'clock pusher as being closer to the crown than 4 o'clock. |
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| Author: | cruvon [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
I took the measurements, is 7-8mm from the top pusher and 10mm from the bottom pusher to the centre of the winding crown or 4mm and 5mm respectively to the edge of the winding crown. |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
thanks, San ! the pushers are clearly asymmetrical on the V72; verified it on a Gallet Multichron; smalller case so the difference is only a bit below 1mm. not of relevance here, but the same applies to the Excelsior Park cal. 40. |
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| Author: | cruvon [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
WatchFred wrote: thanks, San ! the pushers are clearly asymmetrical on the V72; verified it on a Gallet Multichron; smalller case so the difference is only a bit below 1mm. not of relevance here, but the same applies to the Excelsior Park cal. 40. Cheers Fred. Also not sure if the same applies to the Val 72C movement of the 785, will get mesures on that:) |
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| Author: | vintage [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: All original 1955 pre 806? |
Come to think of it I had an Abercrombie & Fitch chronograph circa 1940's a few years ago that had offset pushers. I'm pretty sure it had a Valjoux VZ movement. I remember thinking at the time that the case was drilled for the pushers wrong but someone online said they were all like that. I think the Valjoux 72 is an off shoot of the Valjoux VZ so maybe that makes sense. Good to know anyway. 
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